Pope Francis rejects Viri Probati for Amazon

No, you are so wrong. Grace is an inherent part of all the sacraments, it flows freely from them as we avail ourselves of them.

 

That is your church speaking, not scripture.

 

I hold to the real Gospel of Jesus, and to Pauline justification, not the false Gospel and false salvation of Rome!

 

You are mixing good works with grace, so totally distorting Pauline justification!

 

To those in rome, its the very same thing!

 

I maintain that most heresies stem from an outright rejection of the Incarnation, or a gross misunderstanding of it. Posts like these demonstrate this assertion in almost real time.

There is an old Christian axiom that states grace builds on nature. The ultimate example of this is when God entered into His creation and the material world by becoming man in the Person of Jesus Christ. Thus God used the material to convey His grace. (cf. John 1:17) For example, He used water, oil, spittle, salt, bread, wine, and ultimately his very own flesh and blood.

Therefore we also use the material, which by virtue of the Incarnation, is now the theater for God's grace.

 

One can say that there is some of grace in those elements, but to claim that they actually become God is idolatry!

 

This is not accurate. Christians don't believe those elements become God. Rather, Christians believe that by virtue of the Incarnation, God is sacramentally present in the Eucharist.

1 Cor 10:16 ---> "The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?"

1 Cor 11: 27-29 ---> "Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body."

His sacramental presence in the Eucharist means that the substance of His body, blood, should and divinity are truly present under the appearance of bread and wine.

Regarding idolatry, you have it completely reversed. It is only if the Eucharist is not the body and blood of Christ would it be the ultimate form of idolatry to have anything to do with it.

1 Cor 10:16 ---> Communion - κοινωνία (koinōnia) means: fellowship, association, community, communion, joint participation, intercourse, intimacy
(Source)

Trying to have fellowship, association, community, communion, participation, intercourse and intimacy with a symbol is the height of idolatry because it is a false representation of who God is. It says God is but a symbol. It says it is not His body and blood. It says God is not present amongst His people. It says "He is not here". It says God is not Immanuel. It says God is Hester Panim.


Think Incarnationally.

 

what actually is the wafer and the wine when you partake of it then

 

"God used material to convey his grace."

You're just making stuff up. Using a twisted logic you declare your own definition of grace, which in unsupported in the Bible.

Grace, as provided in scripture, is always God choosing to convey unmerited favor upon a human because he Sovereignly chooses to do so.

Remembering Christ's atoning sacrifice in communion is not an act of grace on God's behalf toward his chosen vessel. Remembering is...remembering. It focuses our heart and mind upon the one who chose to atone for our sins, once and for all. It is the Christian equivalent of the Passover remembrance for the Jews. It is not and never was or has been a means by which grace is given to men. This is equally true with water baptism. It is not and never was or has been a means by which grace is given to men.
Communion and Baptism are an effect that is caused by Jesus choosing to redeem us.
You make Communion and Baptism the cause, which effects Jesus to act and confer grace upon someone. Your approach is legalistic and isn't grace at all. It is works based and man-centered, which is why the elect reject your teaching. Your teaching insults Jesus.

 

also makes us able to work along with God to make sure we get saved, as if God needed us to do our part in order that we permit Him to then do his!

 

Brought about through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

The Spirit of truth not part of idolatry!

 

Go ahead and keep it up, God is taking notes and you will pay the price for your vile comments about the Holy Eucharist. It's one thing to disagree with our belief, but quite another to blaspheme the Holy Spirit as you continue to do.

 

I cannot blaspheme something that does not even exist!

 

Right. It's pure syncretism, which is one thing the Reformation failed to eliminate.

 

Christ is truly present at all times with his chosen children. Wafers and Wine are not needed for Jesus to be truly present with me.
To say Jesus isn't really present with me unless I am celebrating communion and eating a wafer or drinking a sip of wine is to diminish the omnipotence and omnipresence of God. It lowers God to a diminished status and makes his presence with me dependent on a ceremony. What foolish legalism that is. Why would I ever diminish my King in such an awful way?

 

It mocks the Holy Spirit, as it means that he cannot really indwell any of us then!

 

No doubt their gravest mistake, that they did not get salvation fully agreed upon in the proper fashion!

 

NOPE.

According to unconditional election. God grace results after you are selected for NO CONDITION.

He doesn't save you because he loves you, he loves you because you are saved.


We Catholics believe God loves everyone as scripture exactly says without SATAN mumbling over your shoulder: ---

1 Timothy 2:4

who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

ONLY Satan believes in fixing what God says, So the Devil teaches you extra.



"Remembering is...remembering. "

1 Cor 10:16
The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ?

Lets hear you say it out loud, "OF COURSE NOT, PAUL! its just crackers and koolaid"