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Pope Francis rejects Viri Probati for Amazon

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by RCommando, Feb 12, 2020.

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  1. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you catholics teach that God casts those he loves into hell.

    "We Catholics believe God loves everyone."

    We, who take Jesus seriously when he says the Father gives him those God has chosen, believers teach that God hates sin and he hates those who are in rebellion against him. He casts those who justly deserve hell into the lake of fire and those whom he graciously has chosen to justify (despite their deserving hell) he loves, not because they themselves are worthy, but because Christ Jesus, into whom they are immersed, is worthy. "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain."

    You catholics teach a weak savior who needs you to act rightly before he can, maybe, save you.
    We believers teach a strong Savior who is mighty to save the wretch whose hope is lost and who stands condemned in his sins.
     
  2. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    We dunno if Tim ot Titus were married or not. Of the apostles, we know for sure that Peter was.

    1 Tim. 4:1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.
     
  3. Walpole

    Walpole Active Member

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    Yes, we do know they were not married. For example, we know from history (Polycrates) that St. Timothy was not married, along with the Biblical text and tradition that followed.

    1 Tim 4:12 ---> "Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity."

    Men of youth did not marry in Jewish antiquity. Furthermore, there is no tradition in the history of Christianity where the ordained then get married. Rather, any married clergy in antiquity were already married prior to receiving ordination. This is still the case with the Church’s married clergy today. The youthful Timothy, like the man who ordained him (St. Paul), was celibate.


    St. Paul's instruction here to his young bishop is a warning against one of the earliest heresies which was infiltrating the early Church: Gnosticism. A large portion of the New Testament was written to refute and condemn various Gnostic beliefs. 1 Tim 4:1-4 is one such example...

    The "teachings of demons" which forbade marriage and certain foods to which St. Paul was warning St. Timothy is a direct attack against Gnosticism. The Gnostics forbade marriage in order to eliminate childbirth, since they believed the physical / material world, which includes the human body, was inherently evil. Therefore, to procreate meant to introduce more evil into the world. It was imprisoning a divine soul in an evil material body. For this reason, they opposed marriage since the formal end of marriage is procreation.

    The Gnostics were also strict vegetarians. Flesh was evil, so they opposed the consumption of meat.
     
    #83 Walpole, Feb 15, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2020
  4. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Your church imposes legalism as you have displayed here. Legalism is contrary to God's grace and often becomes a controlling monster within the body.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    What saves is the cross, not the wafer and cheap wine!
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, as both Jesus and Paul saw celibacy as a rare gift bestowed upon some by God, but the majority of the time was to get married and raise a family!
     
  7. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    So why don't you have the Cross as the focal point of your worship service? You treat the Cross as it was a minor thing during worship, (if you bring it up at all i.e. Holy Communion) when the scriptures tell us that it is to be the main focus of worship. As for the "wafer and cheap wine" at least we use the correct elements as specified in the Holy Writ. Once again we see those who claim they follow them perfectly really don't.
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We worship the risen Christ in our service, not the wafer and juice!
     
  9. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Have you been to his church? I know you haven't been to mine. Every part of scripture points to Jesus. Everytime my church meets in fellowship it revolves around worshipping the King who ransomed his people through atoning sacrifice. One does not need to eat a wafer or drink a shot of wine to give Christ Jesus the glory and honor. Specifically, one does not need to eat a wafer or drink wine in ceremony in order to remain a citizen in the Kingdom of God.
    Communion is not a legalistic, merit-based, means of evoking God's grace, as your church teaches.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Church of Rome says that we are cleansed of original Sin and born again by water baptism, are given saving grace by communion, so where is the Cross in there?
     
  11. Walpole

    Walpole Active Member

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    Christianity 101 ---> The Sacraments are efficacious only by virtue of the Cross.
     
  12. Walpole

    Walpole Active Member

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    Guess it's my turn for the straw man game. Here goes...

    Your church imposes sacrificing babies to Baal as you have displayed here. Sacrificing babies to Baal is contrary to God's grace (and law) and often becomes a controlling monster within the body.

    You're up...
     
  13. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    The difference is that I have your catechism while you don't have my church doctrinal statement. What I say about your church is not wrong, while you make your up in order to distract from your churches problems.

    The legalism in your church is obvious. I've attended Catholic Mass on more than one occasion.
    Now, you are welcome to attend my church and see if we sacrifice babies to Baal.

    What I stated here is not wrong.
    Your church imposes legalism as you have displayed here. Legalism is contrary to God's grace and often becomes a controlling monster within the body.
     
  14. Walpole

    Walpole Active Member

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    Guess it's my turn again!

    First, please point me to the section of the Catechism which advocates legalism. Here is a search to help you...

    ---> Saint Charles Borromeo Catholic Church of Picayune, MS - Faith - Catechism of the Catholic Church


    What I say about your church is not wrong, while you make up in order to distract from your church's [sic] problems.


    The sacrificing of babies to Baal in your church is obvious. I've attended Baptist services on more than one occasion. Now, you are welcome to attend my church and see if we practice sacrificing babies to Baal.


    What I stated here is not wrong. Your church imposes sacrificing babies to Baal as you have displayed here. Sacrificing babies to Baal is contrary to God's grace (and law) and often becomes a controlling monster within the body.


    Tag...you're up again...Man this is fun!
     
  15. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Legalism oozes from the document because works are the means by which your church says its members will evoke God into giving them grace. Get baptized and do communion and God will, in turn, give grace to you. If you really do good stuff that is recognized by the church and when you die, if a miracle is declared in your name, you may be declared a saint in which case you can give some of your excess grace to others if they pray to you.
    Yep, pure legalism. Grace is not actually applied.
     
  16. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Catholic Legalism:

    1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5
     
  17. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    Catholic Legalism:
    1324 The Eucharist is "the source and summit of the Christian life."136 "The other sacraments, and indeed all ecclesiastical ministries and works of the apostolate, are bound up with the Eucharist and are oriented toward it. For in the blessed Eucharist is contained the whole spiritual good of the Church, namely Christ himself, our Pasch."137

    1325 "The Eucharist is the efficacious sign and sublime cause of that communion in the divine life and that unity of the People of God by which the Church is kept in being. It is the culmination both of God's action sanctifying the world in Christ and of the worship men offer to Christ and through him to the Father in the Holy Spirit."138

    1326 Finally, by the Eucharistic celebration we already unite ourselves with the heavenly liturgy and anticipate eternal life, when God will be all in all.139

    1327 In brief, the Eucharist is the sum and summary of our faith: "Our way of thinking is attuned to the Eucharist, and the Eucharist in turn confirms our way of thinking."140

    1331 Holy Communion, because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.151

    Walpole, your church is legalistic and empty of God's grace.
     
  18. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    "Yep, you catholics teach that God casts those he loves into hell."

    Plenty of Catholics willing to put up with hell for God's sake.

    Separation of God starts with the sin. whereas you look at sinning as a PERK and think the punishment outweighs the sin.


    Saved means something different to the both of us. Stop sinning doing what is right is saved.

    To you salvation is merely getting your selfish desires.


    "You catholics teach a weak savior who needs you to act rightly before he can, maybe, save you."

    Name one person who HATES God and is saved. Maybe its you?
     
  19. Particular

    Particular Well-Known Member

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    You proved my statement that you teach a weak savior who needs you to act rightly before he can, maybe, save you. I quote your own words:

    "Stop sinning doing what is right is saved."

    That is legalistic works salvation, apart from grace. It isn't even taught in the Bible, but you state it anyway.
     
  20. Adonia

    Adonia Well-Known Member
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    We are not divorced from the salvation process. Jesus took the initial step, we look to him first and foremost but then we ourselves have our part in the salvation process. You (we) cannot have one without the other. So what our friend said is true and has merit.
     
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