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Practical Antinomians?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Pastor_Bob, Mar 2, 2018.

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  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    1 John is for false believer who are not Christians Ren 21 8 are not believers

    Salvation is dependent on the finished work of God

    no, all sin is forgiven for the believer
    Jo 1:9
    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1. All have sinned
    2. .All need the Gospel
    3. All saints should not take God's name in vain -- and 1 John 3:4 says it is a sin if they do

    Where is the hard part in this?
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    All sin is forgiven . The believer accepts God's pardon

    Rom 10:13

    For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shallbe saved.

    1Jo 2:12

    I write unto you, little children, because your sins areforgiven you for his name's sake.

    There is no sin that can cancel salvation
    Rom 8:38
    For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    Rom 8:39
    Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    The blasphemy you describe are from unbelievers who reject salvation
     
    #83 loDebar, Mar 7, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2018
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Not in real life.

    In real life John says this

    3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    7 Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. 8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining. 9 The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now. 10 The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

    12 I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13 I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.

    ===============================

    The key is -- 'more scripture... less creative writing"
     
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    1 Cor 6
    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
     
  6. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Please explain the last post, It obviously means something different to you than me
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It means that the justified and sanctified saints of 1 Cor 6 - were in that instance up to their necks in sin and needed to be warned about what the outcome of that would be.

    Which is why it starts with

    it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren
     
  8. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    no , It is talking about Christians suing each other in civil court of the unrighteous instead of settling disputes in the church by fellow Christians
    1Co 6:1
    Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

    read the verses in that light
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It means that the justified and sanctified saints of 1 Cor 6 - were in that instance up to their necks in sin and needed to be warned about what the outcome of that would be.

    Which is why it starts with

    it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren

    We just said the same thing only you started your statement with "no"... you knew that right?

    Except I quoted the text saying "it is already a defeat for you, "
     
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    what has that got to do with salvation then from your comments on post #85?
     
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

    neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

    ===========================

    You said

    instead of that Paul says to the saints "do not be deceived" then points to their failure and tells them that
    "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God."

    Instead of 'your sin does not matter' the point is "be not deceived" into thinking that.
     
  12. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    Those listed by Paul are more interested in their lifestyle sins than accepting God, they are not believers. They continue in their sin rather than stopping as a believer would.
     
  13. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I perceive that not doing things is very important to SDA's

    where are you in Ga,? I am near Athens
     
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read the actual text

    11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified
     
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    I attend a church in a small town called "Jasper".

    "Not doing things"?? :) -- "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19??

    Take a look at section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" if you want to see Baptist affirmation of the Ten Commandments for all Christians.
     
  16. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    I know Jasper and I know sec. 19 .7 and suggest 19.66 If someone does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages the former and deters from the latter, that is not evidence of one's being under the law and not under grace.7

    and suggest to satisfy the OP

    21.3 Those who practice any sin or harbor any sinful desires on pretence of Christian liberty, pervert the main purpose of the grace of the Gospel to their own destruction.1 They completely destroy the purpose of Christian liberty, which is that we (having been delivered from all our [spiritual] enemies) might serve the Lord without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our lives.2
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    :) me too.

    19. The Law of God


    1. God gave to Adam a law of universal obedience which was written in his heart, and He gave him very specific instruction about not eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. By this Adam and all his descendants were bound to personal, total, exact, and perpetual obedience, being promised life upon the fulfilling of the law, and threatened with death upon the breach of it. At the same time Adam was endued with power and ability to keep it.

    2. The same law that was first written in the heart of man continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness after the Fall, and was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in the Ten Commandments, and written in two tables, the first four containing our duty towards God, and the other six, our duty to man.

    3. Besides this law, commonly called the moral law, God was pleased do give the people of Israel ceremonial laws containing several typical ordinances. These ordinances were partly about their worship, and in them Christ was prefigured along with His attributes and qualities, His actions, His sufferings and His benefits. These ordinances also gave instructions about different moral duties. All of these ceremonial laws were appointed only until the time of reformation, when Jesus Christ the true Messiah and the only lawgiver, Who was furnished with power from the Father for this end, cancelled them and took them away.

    4. To the people of Israel He also gave sundry judicial laws which expired when they ceased to be a nation. These are not binding on anyone now by virtue of their being part of the laws of that nation, but their general equity continue to be applicable in modern times.

    5. The moral law ever binds to obedience everyone, justified people as well as others, and not only out of regard for the matter contained in it, but also out of respect for the authority of God the Creator, Who gave the law. Nor does Christ in the Gospel dissolve this law in any way, but He considerably strengthens our obligation to obey it.

    6. Although true believers are not under the law as a covenant of works, to be justified or condemned by it, yet it is of great use to them as well as to others, because as a rule of life it informs them of the will of God and their duty and directs and binds them to walk accordingly. It also reveals and exposes the sinful pollutions of their natures, hearts and lives, and using it for self-examination they may come to greater conviction of sin, greater humility and greater hatred of their sin. They will also gain a clearer sight of their need of Christ and the perfection of His own obedience. It is of further use to regenerate people to restrain their corruptions, because of the way in which it forbids sin. The threatenings of the law serve to show what their sins actually deserve, and what troubles may be expected in this life because of these sins even by regenerate people who are freed from the curse and undiminished rigours of the law. The promises connected with the law also show believers God's approval of obedience, and what blessings they may expect when the law is kept and obeyed, though blessing will not come to them because they have satisfied the law as a covenant of works. If a man does good and refrains from evil simply because the law encourages to the good and deters him from the evil, that is no evidence that he is under the law rather than under grace.

    7. The aforementioned uses of the law are not contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but they sweetly comply with it, as the Spirit of Christ subdues and enables the will of man to do freely and cheerfully those things which the will of God, which is revealed in the law, requires to be done.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    True ... and as 1 John 3:4 says "Sin IS transgression of the Law"
    1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not"
     
  19. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

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    there is also sin of omission.

    The focus cannot be on a "law" but complete obedience to Jesus. The relationship should be so clear so that keeping a detail of a law is not considered. It is inappropriate to keep a tally of keeping a list to think it obligates God. We obey not for salvation but because of salvation.
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Indeed lots of "sins" to be had.

    1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not".

    Good thing the "Law of God is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

    No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
    And John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    Both-and not either-or

    That is merely creative writing.

    Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19... He is not in error.
    Paul also says "fixing our eyes on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2... He is not in error.

    Not either-or but rather both-and -- it is Christ in you the hope of glory - that writes the Law on your heart AND mind
     
    #100 BobRyan, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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