1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Practical Antinomians?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Pastor_Bob, Mar 2, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist

    no, it is the personal problem, Do I obey, not do things on the list, in order for God to be obligated to bless me ? Do I get so close to he line and not sin? Do I pay tithe , keep a tally of my actions to keep as a arrogant spiritual position over others?

    sounds like a legalistic, Baptist pharisee

    The Christians actions should be for love and the glory of our redeemer, not personal accounting

    We are on death row, and Christians have accepted God's pardon, There is no need to try and get out by tallying our good behavior.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Indeed lots of "sins" to be had.

    1 John 2:1 "These things I write to you that you sin not".

    Good thing the "Law of God is written on the heart" under the New Covenant.

    No wonder Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
    And John writes "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    Both-and not either-or

    That is merely creative writing.

    Paul says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19... He is not in error.
    Paul also says "fixing our eyes on Jesus" Hebrews 12:2... He is not in error.

    Not either-or but rather both-and -- it is Christ in you the hope of glory - that writes the Law on your heart AND mind


    Do you have a conscience? Does your conscience ever convict you of sin?

    Typically the answer is "yes"'. Under conviction of sin do you repent and ask for forgiveness?

    Where is the issue?


    Is this your response every time someone reminds you that it is still a sin for saints to take God's name in vain?

    Seriously???

    sounds like a legalistic, Baptist pharisee
     
  3. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist

    I was criticizing myself.

    That is not a conscience but the Holy Spirit .

    The issue is, if you do not do things you mention and yet still want to, you sin. Your relationship with Jesus is hurt.
    It is a sin to takes God's name in vain as it is to have faith in the wrong thing. You faith cannot be in your actions, that is not salvation by the Grace of God but your own strength or ability to follow a check off list.

    Do not believe I am saved because of what I do not do .
    Do not believed you can help Jesus save you or that He needs help by your actions.
    Do not believe I am not saved if I sin. I hurt the relationship but I am still saved.
    What is the different in your attitude of the importance of your actions as compared to the OT Law.?

    You are saved by your attitude which may show through your actions, The OT rely's on their actions to show their attitude toward God.

    If I rely on my actions, I am not relying on the finished work ofJesus

    see the difference?

    If you miss Sabbath, what is the consequence?
     
    #103 loDebar, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Conscience informed and trained by the Holy Spirit is very good at "convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment" as we see in John 16.

    The New Covenant includes a change of heart where "the LAW is written on heart and mind" and as Paul says in 2 Cor 5 "if anyone is in Christ - he is a new creation" the new birth creates it - and then it is at war with the old sinful nature.

    Faith is in Christ - but Christ says that faith will have "fruit" and "by their fruits you shall know them" Matthew 7.

    The "good tree produces good fruit" according to Christ and the New Birth is how the bad tree becomes a good one.

    True up to a point.

    But at some point that Romans 11 and Matthew 18 teaching of Christ comes in. "I forgave you all that debt...turn him over to the torturers until he shall repay ALL that was owed... so shall My Father do to each one of you if you do not forgive" -- in that Matthew 18 story the only reason for someone to forgive others was because they had already been fully forgiven.

    Jesus said "by their fruits" you shall know them

    If you take God's name in vain what is the consequence?
    If you beat your wife what is the consequence?

    Hopefully it is that you repent and receive forgiveness and have true confession.

    John said this "My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;" 1 John 2:1

    You are not lost each time you sin - but you confronted with the free-will choice of repentance having been convicted by the Holy Spirit ... each time. IF you choose to reject the Spirit of Christ - each time ... you are choosing the lake of fire for yourself in Christ's teaching on "Forgiveness Revoked" found in Matthew 18 and in Ezekiel 18.

    As I told Steaver on another thread -- I do not claim that all Catholics are going to the lake of fire simply because they bow down before images and promise to serve those they represent.

    James 4:17 and John 9:41 apply in all cases
     
    #104 BobRyan, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  5. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist

    The consequences toward salvation, not the consequences of the sin.

    Forgiveness is not revoked in either Scripture nor is it discussed Ezekiel is written to the House of Israel and Matt 18, I assume, 8, 9, 10 which clearly only only states the physical ids not important as the spiritual. Do not let the physical keep you from heaven.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -
    Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.

    Matthew 18
    32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”
     
  7. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Spirit gives life. The Law condemns.
     
  8. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "If"??? Who is it who has kept the moral law?
     
  9. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you claiming to be the House of Israel?
    Matt. is talking about a spirit of forgiveness because we have been forgiven of even more
     
  10. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Does one loose salvation if the moral law is not kept?
     
  11. thatbrian

    thatbrian Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    2,677
    Likes Received:
    372
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If that were the case who would be left standing, other than @BobRyan, of course.
     
  12. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    According to who?

    Scripture?

    1 Cor 6
    7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
     
  13. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    The New Covenant is for the "House of Israel" -




    I claim to be a New Covenant Christian.. do you?

    Jeremiah 31
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Romans 2
    28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



    ============================================
    Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
    Matthew 18
    32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

    Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due
     
    #113 BobRyan, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    That is how the lost view the law - because it is intended to get them to see their need of the Gospel.

    For the saved saints - under the New Covenant - that law is written on the heart and mind.

    As even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" Section 19 freely admits. Along with D.L. Moody
     
  15. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist
     
  16. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist
    so we loose our salvation?
     
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    I claim to be a New Covenant Christian.. do you?

    Jeremiah 31
    31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Romans 2
    28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



    ============================================
    Matthew 18 is specifically about forgiveness revoked.
    Matthew 18
    32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him. 35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”



    Indeed -- Christ shows us the "fully forgiven" about whom it is said "I forgave you ALL" and yet due to subsequent actions of the "fully forgiven" -- they experience forgiveness revoked. until he should pay all that was due[/QUOTE]


    In your POV is there such a thing as "Salvation where you pay your own debt of sin" -- having been "forgiven all" he then had to "repay all".. OR is Christ simply mistaken in your POV?

    OSAS does not survive Matthew 18 nor Romans 11 nor Ezekiel 18 (nor even Matthew 6)

    (I notice you are not answering the question "do you claim to be a New Covenant Christian")
     
    #117 BobRyan, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Rebellion is what kind fruit?

    1 John 1 and 2 argue for repentance in view of rebellion - are you proposing stubborn rebellion?
     
  19. loDebar

    loDebar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,190
    Likes Received:
    27
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You are trying to earn salvation
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    32,913
    Likes Received:
    70
    Faith:
    Non Baptist Christian
    Why accuse me of that - simply because I claim Christ is not in error in Matthew 18??

    Nor is He in error in Matthew 7 "by their fruits you shall know them"

    Nor is it error to ask the question "rebellion is what kind of fruit"?

    Nor is it error to make this comment ... 1 John 1 and 2 argue for repentance in view of rebellion - are you proposing stubborn rebellion?

    Nor is it error to expect an answer to the question.

    I think we all knew that.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...