1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Predestination is that of a saved man unto a resurrection body in Christ's image

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by George Antonios, Jul 29, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Jeremiah 1:5 let's say this i
    Aside from the misunderstanding your arriving at with those verses . They don't speak of us as existing like Jesus with the Father. Jesus actually existed with the Father . unless your adopting Mormon theology here ? They teach we were all once spirit babies on another planet before coming to earth . Where we forgot about this and we need to learn through the example Jesus gave us by following the commandments to endure to the end so that we too will possess our own planet one day . Where we will also create spirit babies to continue the eternal progression ?
     
    #21 Barry Johnson, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  2. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    How can you have a resurrection of an unsaved man into the image of Christ? Salvation is the entire process of resurrection of the human spirit followed by the resurrection of the flesh on the last day.

    Paul says God makes of the same lump vessels of mercy and vessels of wrath.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2018
    Messages:
    5,863
    Likes Received:
    1,338
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Amen.
    No.
    Read the passages and believe the words, Barry.

    They say that God "knew" someone before they were born.;)
    He didn't just know about them, but knew them.

    Then compare it to this:

    " Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
    22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

    23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." ( Matthew 7:21-23 ).
     
  4. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Wheres that ? I see the spin your putting on the verses ,but where does it say that ? And what do you mean 'know '? conversationally? face to face? before they were born ? did God lose them ? did we forget ?
     
  5. Barry Johnson

    Barry Johnson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2020
    Messages:
    2,353
    Likes Received:
    171
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes Jesus never ' knew ' them meaning they were not saved . Jesus is not saying He never knew them before they existed .
    Gal 4
    8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
    9But now after that you have known God ,or rather are known of God , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
     
    #25 Barry Johnson, Aug 2, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2018
    Messages:
    5,531
    Likes Received:
    453
    Faith:
    Baptist
    weird
     
  7. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    You slipped in "unsaved" there. It's the resurrection of the saved.
    Predestination is never that of a lost man unto salvation, but of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body.
    I take it you did not watch the video.
     
  8. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'll take that.
     
  9. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I won't consider the video. But your post title ignores that a saved person is first resurrected spiritually through the new birth and it is salvation. If it were not, believers would not go to heaven before the resurrection of the body.

    Plus, eternal life is without beginning or end. So the saved were always saved in God just as the damned were always damned in God. Paul proves this in Romans 9.
     
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course not, for thou hast attained.
     
  11. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    All that you say is meaningless according to Paul who says salvation and damnation were determined eternally in God apart from any human influence.
     
  12. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Of course, no verse is provided.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Romans 9 covers it.
     
  14. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Predestination is always of a saved man unto a Christ-like resurrection body. Romans 8 covers it.
     
  15. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not true. Election is salvation since it is of God and he cannot fail in bringing it to completion.
     
  16. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I said "predestination". Not "election".
     
  17. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It's the same in Reformed usage.
     
  18. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And that's great, only we're concerned with Biblical usage.
     
  19. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Messages:
    7,953
    Likes Received:
    706
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That is the biblical usage.
    “Who shall lay anything to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.” Romans 8:33 (NCPB)

    Elect = justification.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2019
    Messages:
    2,895
    Likes Received:
    298
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So now we have: election = predestination = justification. Right.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...