savedbymercy
New Member
the bib
Utter Blasphemy !
Utter Blasphemy !
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Preordination
- Thread starter steaver
- Start date
savedbymercy
New Member
steaver
Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated[preordained] according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated[preordained] according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
savedbymercy
New Member
No Saint was ever a Child of the Devil, No Saint ever had The Devil as a Father.
So then your pov creates some big questions which you cannot give answers to because they destroy your theology. How did these men sin if not by the cause of the Devil? Since you claim the person's will has nothing in it for it is not free to choose?
savedbymercy
New Member
Your question is senseless, men sin because they are born sinners. That is not the issue, all men are not the children of the devil. Men had no freewill choice who is their Father.
savedbymercy
New Member
The Godly knows that the freewill of man is a myth, because of such scriptures as:
Ps 80:3,7,19
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
vs7 Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
vs 19 Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Ps 85:4
Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.
This expresses first of all, a humble acknowledgment of God's Sovereignty, and secondly, a realization of inability and no confidence in the flesh.
This is not the sentiment of those who believe and promote the myth that God has given men a freewill.
Ps 80:3,7,19
Turn us again, O God, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
vs7 Turn us again, O God of hosts, and cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
vs 19 Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.
Ps 85:4
Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.
This expresses first of all, a humble acknowledgment of God's Sovereignty, and secondly, a realization of inability and no confidence in the flesh.
This is not the sentiment of those who believe and promote the myth that God has given men a freewill.
The OP issue is whether or not a believer has freewill to do good or to do bad. If a believer has no freewill to choose good deeds or to choose bad deeds, then what is the purpose for the Judgment Seat of Christ? Christ would have nothing to judge of the believer, according to your theology, for the believer has no choice in the matter to do good or to do evil. For as you claim, the inner man cannot choose evil and the fleshly man cannot choose good. So how is the believer judged???
savedbymercy
New Member
There is no such thing as freewill for a believer or non believer ! All wills are controlled by God's Will Eph 1:11
11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
The Believer will be Judged by being rewarded for what God accomplished through them. Paul says of believers Phil 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Rev 11:16-18
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
you just called God a liar!
He states that ALL have fallen short of His glory, that ALL have sinned and are sinners!
John said that IF we say we have not sinned, are liars!
ONLY Jesus was perfect, without a sin nature, never sinned...
He was God in human flesh, are you similiar?
Ironic, thats like the pot calling the kettle black!
You misunderstood him, believe that he was saying that both God and man chose based upon their natures, and God can choose to do anything he wants, while humans are sinners, so ONLY able to chose as thei flesh allows them to!
savedbymercy
New Member
You promote salvation by works, a false gospel !
savedbymercy
New Member
The Gospel cannot be preached without declaring the preordination of all things, to include the Death of Christ for His Elect 1 Pet 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Weymouth New Testament
He was pre-destined indeed to this work, even before the creation of the world, but has been plainly manifested in these last days for the sake of you who, through Him,
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Weymouth New Testament
He was pre-destined indeed to this work, even before the creation of the world, but has been plainly manifested in these last days for the sake of you who, through Him,
All of that is true, in that Jesus was lamb of God slain before foundation of the World, died for His own, but still we must have faith in jesus to get saved!
savedbymercy
New Member
Works salvation and false witnessing !
Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
You just made the works of God wood, hay and stubble. Worthless works, to be burned in His own fire. Your perversions of scripture has led you into heresy after heresy. God's works are perfect, not to be burned up as worthless. You should feel ashamed.
savedbymercy
New Member
Lol, how did you come up with that response for me stating this:
The Believer will be Judged by being rewarded for what God accomplished through them.
Because, according to you, God is judging His own works at the judgment seat of Christ where we read that the works which are to be judged are both good and bad works. You contend the believer has nothing in them for the believer has no choice. Unless you believe God is doing the good works and the devil is doing the bad works, which would make the believer both a child of God and a child of the devil at the same time.
savedbymercy
New Member
steaver
Yes, for a believer, the Judgment is their reward and approbation before the universe for what they did for Him by His Grace working in them !
1 Cor 15:10,58
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
8 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
All the brethren will be rewarded at the Judgment for their Labour in the Lord, which was done by His Grace as Paul states in 1 Cor 15:10
So your response still remains non sensical
What you mean nothing in them ? The Believer upon being made a New Creature, begins to walk in good works that God preordained for them to walk in Eph 2:10, and God will reward them for it, simple as that !
What God has preordained, you have no choice, you will just do it !
Yes, for a believer, the Judgment is their reward and approbation before the universe for what they did for Him by His Grace working in them !
1 Cor 15:10,58
10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
8 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
All the brethren will be rewarded at the Judgment for their Labour in the Lord, which was done by His Grace as Paul states in 1 Cor 15:10
So your response still remains non sensical
What you mean nothing in them ? The Believer upon being made a New Creature, begins to walk in good works that God preordained for them to walk in Eph 2:10, and God will reward them for it, simple as that !
What God has preordained, you have no choice, you will just do it !
If a believer is nothing more than God's puppet having no choice in the matter then this is not a "judgment" of the believer's works but rather a judgment of God judging His own works. This makes no sense.
savedbymercy
New Member
I have given you truth, so be it.