Preordination

[Yeshua1]

What would you say this scripture means to you?

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." (Acts 13:48)

Would say that the Apostle was recording that those who were elected by God to be able to hear and receive the truth of the Gospel proved/confirmed their election by coming to Christ as Messiah in order to get saved!

Those who were selected out from among, that the Lord had chosen them to be saved in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you think anyone is listening to you anymore SBM? You are not here for debate, you are here to preach your own solitary version of scripture. Not one here agrees with your views that we are all just puppets on God's string. That should speak volumes to you but your ears are deaf. I highly doubt that even Calvin himself would support you.

KNOW that Calvin did not hold to it like he does, as calvin ALWAYS said that the Elect will always come to Christ and place their faith in Him in order to get saved, as THAT act confirmed/proved their election was true!

 

[The Biblicist]

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KNOW that Calvin did not hold to it like he does, as calvin ALWAYS said that the Elect will always come to Christ and place their faith in Him in order to get saved, as THAT act confirmed/proved their election was true!

It not only proves their election is true (1 Thes. 1:4-5) but election is "UNTO" (Gr. eis) salvation rather than being salvation (2 Thes. 2:13).

SGM absolute nonsense of "saved" before they are "saved" in time and space is pure foolishness. The Trinune work of salvation cannot be taken and divided and segmented so that each stand alone in and of itself apart from the other works of the other Two Divine Persons - that is pure theoretical fantasy land.

What God has purposed in eternity still needs to be done in time and space or it is UNFINISHED - "I have purposed it, I WILLL do it" - Isa. 46:11

To argue, as SBM does, that God cannot be restricted to time, refers only to HIS PERSON not HIS PURPOSES, as His purposes are by design for time and in time, as the very idea of a "purpose" is a yet UNFULFILLED concept that will be carried out - "I have purposed it, I WILL do it." - Isa. 46:11

 

[steaver]

Would say that the Apostle was recording that those who were elected by God to be able to hear and receive the truth of the Gospel proved/confirmed their election by coming to Christ as Messiah in order to get saved!

Those who were selected out from among, that the Lord had chosen them to be saved in Christ!

What I am focussing on is the term "ordained". Are you saying that ordained means "proved or confirmed"? And also what I am wondering is does "ordained" mean that it must happen? regarless of man's choosing? Or in other words, is it saying that if a person is ordained to something that person will choose that thing by the will of God. Or, is there no choosing at all but only believing that proves the ordination? Idk, trying to nail down how the Calvinist views or teaches "ordained".

 

[steaver]

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KNOW that Calvin did not hold to it like he does, as calvin ALWAYS said that the Elect will always come to Christ and place their faith in Him in order to get saved, as THAT act confirmed/proved their election was true!

The problem I have with sbm is that he claims everyone who does not believe in TULIP, and does not believe it as he teaches it, is unsaved because they have not believed the gospel. This would mean the entire membership here at BB is lost in his view. I don't know why he is allowed to continue on here with such heresy, but I am not the board boss. So I mostly ignore his post.

 

[Yeshua1]

What I am focussing on is the term "ordained". Are you saying that ordained means "proved or confirmed"? And also what I am wondering is does "ordained" mean that it must happen? regarless of man's choosing? Or in other words, is it saying that if a person is ordained to something that person will choose that thing by the will of God. Or, is there no choosing at all but only believing that proves the ordination? Idk, trying to nail down how the Calvinist views or teaches "ordained".

God made the Sovereign choice that have them saved out of the larger group that all heard the same message, but they responded by placing faith in jesus as messiah...

the Lord open their minds/hearts to be able to freely rrespond to what they heard, but kept the remainder in their 'natural states"

 

[steaver]

God made the Sovereign choice that have them saved out of the larger group that all heard the same message, but they responded by placing faith in jesus as messiah...

the Lord open their minds/hearts to be able to freely rrespond to what they heard, but kept the remainder in their 'natural states"

I get that part of your belief, but I am looking for the "ordained" explanation, or am I just not understanding you?

 

[The Biblicist]

I get that part of your belief, but I am looking for the "ordained" explanation, or am I just not understanding you?

The Greek term "horizo" means to mark out the boudary lines. It is where we get our English term "horizon." The horizon encompasses all that one can see. No one can see beyond the "horizon."

When this term is contextually linked with God and His purpose it refers to all that God has determined and is committed to "working all things together" with a certain determnation in view - "according to His Purpose." (Rom. 8:28-29).

Romans 8:28-30 is often misintepreted because of failure to note the beginning verse (v. 28) and the final verse (v. 31) which deny that mere prescience or knowledge of future events are the "horizon" in view.

Verse 28 clearly and explicitly states there is a DETERMINATION in view where God is actively "working all things for our good" while verse 31 explicitly states this determination in the words "If God be FOR US who can be against us."

In addition ALL whom God is working for good are ALL whom He has foreknown according to that determinate purpose and all whom he has foreknown are predestinated to be conformed to the image of His son. Hence, not one foreknown is predestinated to that "horizon" or end! That means ALL who are called are ALL justified and are ALL glorified and this is what constitutes the basis of the question "if God be FOR US who can be against us?" The necessary inference is that NNE can be against us if God has DETERMINED to be for us because He is determinately working all things for us "ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE" and as Isaiah says, "What I have purposed, I WILL DO it."

 

[Yeshua1]

So all those that God determined beforehand to be saved were when they heard the Gospel, as the Lord made sure they received the means/grace to be enabled to hear/belive and be saved!

 

[steaver]

So all those that God determined beforehand to be saved were, when they heard the Gospel, as the Lord made sure they received the means/grace to be enabled to hear/belive and be saved!

So then "ordained" means it will happen?

 

[AresMan]

The Christian acts out in Two Different men, One Born of the Flesh and one Born of God !

When Paul says in Galatians 4:29:

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Was he saying that Christians are schizophrenic masochists?
Or is "he that was born after the flesh" and "him that was born after the Spirit" two different persons?

 

[Yeshua1]

So then "ordained" means it will happen?

Those who were intended by the Lord to get saved by hearing the message of Christ will get saved, as shown by exercising faith in what they heard!

 

[savedbymercy]

When Paul says in Galatians 4:29:

Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Was he saying that Christians are schizophrenic masochists?
Or is "he that was born after the flesh" and "him that was born after the Spirit" two different persons?

That scripture is speaking about the persecution the Believer in Christ receives from the reprobated. It has nothing to do with the point I was making, which you apparently do not understand it, and so I do not have time for dumb comments !

 

[Yeshua1]

paul contrasting the Jews who were those "of the flesh" who did not belive in Yeshua and were active persecuting those jews who were "in the Spirit", as they had received yeshua as messiah!

Current time, that would be the christians saved by god, and those who are just church goers, professing Christ, but not really saved!