I will do better than that Steaver....here are real Calvinist sermons...I have heard all of these men preach in person, I have spoken with these men, and will back up most of what they would preach as they present it.
So if and when you or the others find anything you can find fault with, post the message and the time on the message where you object....
I will give a sample of each Pastor....you can pick from thousands they have online and let us know where they do what you suggest:laugh::wavey::thumbsup:
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=71814723310
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=71814832132
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=71814832132
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=32081840552
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1116142035257
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=1228142133149
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=12151435121
Preparing a truthful Calvinist sermon
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by steaver, Jan 13, 2015.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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When the Calvinist minister preaches a doctrinal sermon "to the choir" they freely describe Calvinism.
But when the Calvinist minister appeals to the lost to accept Christ - they use Arminian arguments.
The question is - why. And how do they sleep at night knowing that in real life - the only thing that actually works - is the Arminian appeal to the lost. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
which of the sermons listed does that?
if none of them do.....find one that does.
Arminian sermons appeal to the flesh to do something. I doubt you have heard real cal sermons, or you would not follow a false prophetess... -
The Arminian evangelist can honestly preach about
- A Universal Appeal to Believe the Gospel (John 12:32).
- A Universal Declaration of God’s Love for All Humanity (John 3:16)
- A Universal Call To Repentance (Acts 2:38-39)
- A Universal Atonement Through The Favour of God (1 Timothy 2:1-6)
- A Universal Gospel Meant For All Nations (Mark 16:15-16)
All they can honestly proclaim is - arbitrary selection of the "FEW" in Matt 7, and a Sovereign God who selects what Christ calls "FEW." in Matt 7
So the Calvinist evangelist doing a crusade as Billy Graham was known to go - must resort to the Arminian appeal.
The only defense left for the Calvinist - is to post doctrinal sermons where they "preach to their own choir" which is the only safe context for Calvinism. -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
there is no universal atonement .....there is a Covenant atonement for sinners scattered all over the world,from every tribe tongue and nation...cals preach that as that is what scripture offers.
I have no problem being faithful to scripture in presenting the gospel to sinners everyday...face to face without compromise.
Often all 5 pts come out if the conversation goes on for awhile. The people are almost relieved when they hear the truth expressed rather than the Pollyanna nonsense they are normally offered.
These truths are easily presented from the scripture alone, leaving the theological terms in the study and just opening up scripture such as jn 6;37-44,Jn 8, jn 10 :26-30 jn17, romans 1-3 ,8:29-39 Hebrews 10 -
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Peters sermon was addressed specifically to the House of Israel, a Elect People Acts 2:36,22
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Jesus gives Remission of sins unto Israel Acts 5:31
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Gods promise of Salvation in the Lord was made to only one people, Israel Isa 45:15-17
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. -
"Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is not entering through the door to the fold of the sheep, but is going up from another side, that one is a thief and a robber; and he who is entering through the door is shepherd of the sheep; to this one the doorkeeper doth open, and the sheep hear his voice, and his own sheep he doth call by name, and doth lead them forth; and when his own sheep he may put forth, before them he goeth on, and the sheep follow him, because they have known his voice; and a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him, because they have not known the voice of strangers."(vss 1-5 YLT)
Now, it is through the gospel that the sheep are gathered in....Ephesians 1:13, 1 Cor. 1:21, and Romans 1:16.....
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So far brother Willis agrees it is honest. No other Calvinist has yet opined, makes me believe it is right on the mark so far....... -
And the response from some Calvinists?? "extreme inference" eisegetically spinning the text so that it cannot even be true at all!
As you are doing here.
in Christ,
Bob -
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The following statement is a great highlight on Spurgeon's view of a key doctrine in Calvinism - as we find it in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed
Quoting Spurgeon in the "Baptist Confession of Faith"
4. Others are not elected, although they may be called by the ministry of the Word, and may experience some common operations of the Spirit, yet because they are not effectually drawn by the Father, they will not and cannot truly come to Christ and therefore cannot be saved. Much less can men who do not embrace the Christian religion be saved, however diligent they may be to frame their lives according to the light of nature and the requirements of the religion they profess.Click to expand...
But in so doing - Spurgeon is stuck at the point of making God the author of His own "lament".
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobRyan
[FONT="]“He CAME to HIS OWN and [/FONT][FONT="]His OWN received Him not[/FONT][FONT="]” John 1[/FONT]
[FONT="]Matt 23[/FONT]
[FONT="]37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. [/FONT]
[FONT="]38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate![/FONT]
[FONT="]Luke 7[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 [/FONT][FONT="]When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. [/FONT]
[FONT="]29 [/FONT][FONT="]But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Is 5:4[/FONT][FONT="]
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT]
[FONT="]Response: [/FONT]
[FONT="] Well the Calvinist would have an answer for God's question on that one. An answer contrived via “extreme inference” in places like Deut 5:29. Calvinism would inform the world – and God Himself of just what God did to cause the lamentable result that God is complaining about in t[FONT="]he verse above[/FONT].
[FONT="]I[FONT="]n Calvinism i[/FONT][/FONT]f the result is wrong if it is to be lamented if the question [FONT="]is to be asked "What more could have been done" w[FONT="]ell [/FONT][/FONT]then Calvinism argues He [FONT="]knows exactly what He failed to do [/FONT] - [FONT="]in effect [/FONT] sabotaging His own plans - the cause of His own "lament" - or at the very least - being forgetful to "do the necessary" as the saying goes in India.
[FONT="]================================
[FONT="]God's "lament" does not ask "what more could the LOST have done that they have not done" because He knows[FONT="] exactly wh[FONT="]at THEY could h[FONT="]av[FONT="]e [FONT="]done.
[FONT="]Rather [FONT="]G[FONT="]od asks[FONT="] 'What MOR[FONT="]E could I HAVE done that I did not do?" -- the very ques[FONT="]tion [FONT="]all Calvinists claim to have the answer for.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
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Calvinism claims that this lament is impossible because only God controls that outcome it is not affected by the choice of man.
Pay close attention as one of our Calvinist friends instructs God on what "HE can do" to resolve "His Lament".
convicted1 said: ↑The non-elect, the goats, they gladly go to hell. You witness to people, and if God isn't working within them, they want nothing to do with you. They are happy, content in their sinful lifestyle(s). Unless God changes their will, their 'want to', they will never desire to find that strait and narrow gate.Click to expand...
in Christ,
Bob -
convicted1 said: ↑All of us were deserving of hell. God didn't have to send Jesus to die for us(before He created the world, that is), but He chose to. The bible explicitly shows a covenental love betwixt the bride(the church) and the Bridegroom(Jesus). If you believe in universal atonement, then you believe in universal salvation. Congrats, you're a universalist.Click to expand...
There is a pretty good explanation of it by God Himself in Lev 16 for those who care that their doctrine could be flawed (unless they are the Pope of course).
in Christ,
Bob -
BobRyan said: ↑20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
And the response from some Calvinists?? "extreme inference" eisegetically spinning the text so that it cannot even be true at all!
That is eisegesis - you "infer" your meaning into the text such that you must avoid all other texts to the contrary. i.e. "proof texting" as many Calvinist do.
As you are doing here.
in Christ,
BobClick to expand... -
It seems many who find Calvinism apply it incorrectly. I think that is part of what puts off so many.
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convicted1 said: ↑God made Adam and then Eve. We are procreated. Major difference.Click to expand...
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporterbreakingcontact said: ↑It seems many who find Calvinism apply it incorrectly. I think that is part of what puts off so many.Click to expand...
Sometimes that can happen...UT here what is happening is a few who clearly do not understand the verses at all are just foaming out all manner of error.
Notice how the poster is clueless on lk19:10.......do you see not only his wrong Iidea.....but because he has an agenda to attack.....he then inflicts other wrong ideas into the discuss I on to annoy saved by mercy -
Huh?:null:
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savedbymercy said: ↑You just dont believe the Truth. The World in 2 Cor 5:19 does not have any sins charged to it.Click to expand...
Probation for the world is still ongoing.
That in and of itself means saved from the penalty and consequences of sin ! So Vs 20 is an appeal to the already saved, not to the Lost !Click to expand...
A statement never found in all of scripture.
Really? that is where extreme inference leads you?
Not one text says that "you are unreconciled though already saved"
Rather 2Cor 5 argues for you to choose to be reconciled to God because in that reconciliation you get the benefit of the Atonement.
Without it - you have nothing.
Without choosing to be reconciled you have --
[FONT="]“He CAME to HIS OWN and [/FONT][FONT="]His OWN received Him not[/FONT][FONT="]” John 1[/FONT]
[FONT="]Matt 23[/FONT]
[FONT="]37“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. [/FONT]
[FONT="]38“Behold, your house is being left to you desolate![/FONT]
[FONT="]Luke 7[/FONT]
[FONT="]28 [/FONT][FONT="]When all the people and the tax collectors heard this, they acknowledged God’s justice, having been baptized with the baptism of John. [/FONT]
[FONT="]29 [/FONT][FONT="]But the Pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptized by John.[/FONT]
[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]Is 5:4[/FONT][FONT="]
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?[/FONT]
in Christ,
Bob
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