What saddens me is that this poster is deciding that a man strays because of how a woman dresses.
A woman could walk naked up to my husband and he would not stray - because he's a man of integrity.
Actually, a woman DID walk up to him naked (well, topless) and he turned around and walked away.
It was at our beach baptism.
But this idea of blaming the woman for a man straying sounds an awful lot like what Debbie Pearl teaches and I think it's so unbiblical and unsound.
Yes, we should dress modestly but I believe that I can be modest in pants, in shorts, in skirts and even in a bathing suit.
But to blame a woman on a man's sin - that's just ridiculous.
Or maybe the pride of legalism is showing here.
Yes, there are "standards" - we are to dress modestly.
Modesty is going to be culturally dependent.
What is modest to me is not going to be modest in Saudi Arabia and what is modest in Saudi Arabia might not be modest in other parts of the world.
Even our skirts might have been completely immodest in Bible times - so then what?
Yes, we go to the beach.
I don't look at my husband to make sure he averts his eyes as women go walking by "nearly in the nude" because I trust him.
I know his heart - and I know what he tells me when we're there.
But he enjoys the beach, not because of how women dress but he loves the warm weather, the sand and the ocean.
There is no temptation for him because he doesn't entertain the views.
Again, a godly man takes responsibility for himself and if something were to cause him to sin, he avoids it.
Maybe you have these feelings about this subject because your own husband struggles with this and has decided on this legalistic stance - and you have followed him because it's the only way to try to control his behavior?
I don't know.
I know MANY men of integrity that do not leave their wives because a woman comes by in a pair of jeans and a woman who has a man that she can trust doesn't worry about it either.
Good post in its entirety but as to the bold; my church experience has proven time and again that misogyny much like racism is a convenient refuge. Sadly, both are alive and well in the Fundamentalist/Evangelical movement. It's also similar to the rampant hatred for homosexuals and lesbians.
Anything to allay personal responsibility is a wonderful substitute for personal accountability. If I can find easily accessible or identifiable means to condemn and shun I can then shrug off the commission to reach out to the lost or otherwise.
Excellent summation of the culture in which those holding saltzer's views live. I am a recovering fundamentalist who has seen the self-righteous wickedness which undergirds saltzer's unScriptural beliefs. This judgmental pharisaistic superiority complex is the antithesis of Biblical Christianity.
Satan says, "look at your sin".
God says, "Look at My Son".
12strings nailed the intent of my post perfectly, but just to be absolutely clear. Yes, homosexuality is a sin, no question, no equivocation and no arguments from me on the matter. However, hatred of those that practice the selfsame, is as well. I view staunch misogyny the same as I'd view hatred of any specific group. Traditionally, it seems the church (in this case primarily men) are cozy with misogyny. Thank the Lord God Almighty that things have changed quite a lot since I was lad. Admittedly, I'm probably a bit defensive on the subject. I grew up in Old Order Plymouth Brethren churches and put bluntly, women were treated like property, valued just above cattle.
What I stated so poorly in the post you questioned was that I tend to look at the practical application of misogyny through fundamental legalism much the same as I see ANY application f fundamental legalism. I chose homosexuality as an example simply because it's such a relevant topic my home state right now.
I'm very blessed to reside in a church home wherein the Pastor/s separate the sin from sinner BUT only in light of outreach and evangelism.
Godly woman i just had to reply to your post. You said that Godly man just turned around and walked the other way when he saw the bare chested woman. What did you expect him to do right there in front of all the church. When a man or woman is in a church setting you will always see the best side of them. You said you know his heart, he don't even know his heart himself, so how could you know it. Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: WHO CAN KNOW IT. I am beginning to see the us crowd on here don't understand the corrupt nature of mankind that they still retain even after their saved. Godly woman you say that there is no temptation for Godly man at the beach because he doesn't intertain the views. How do you know ?
either you don't live in the real world or Godly man has brain washed you. In your description of him he totally lives above sin. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Oh by the way, you said something about my husband, i don't have a husband, i'm a man i have a wife. LOL
Maybe Ann's husband loves & cherishes his wife....maybe he puts that before his old man sin nature. Maybe he is happy being with her & wouldn't do anything in the world to screw that up. Maybe he has sat with others in order to provide counseling to a marriage thats busted up & so he has a frame of reference, & maybe he remembers the vows he took at the very beginning, meant them & is a man of his word.
Yes you wont find that too often amongst men because we use excuses to justifying our philandering but perhaps this man is the real deal, a true man of God!
Blessing to you Ann & my complements to your husband!
:godisgood:
So much for that heart transplant God does. So much for God being faithful to cause us to walk in His ways. So much for being a new creation too. So much for no longer being a slave to sin. One wonders why Christ died for us in your theological world.
You go on and on about how we're ignoring Scripture, yet you are the one blowing past vast sections of God's Word in order to sanctimoniously condemn people you don't know anything about.
How do I know?
Because I know my husband's character and we talk.
No, he absolutely doesn't live above sin - trust me.
We both know that.
However, seeing a woman dressed provacatively doesn't mean he's sinning.
Entertaining further thoughts would be a sin - not just seeing something.
As for you being a man, then maybe the whole reason you are taking this stance is because you yourself struggle with this and place the blame on women instead of on yourself.
I can't help you with that - that is your own heart that is deceptive - not a woman in pants.
:)