Hey gang,
I know this is a stretch for this thread. But because there are so many who are academics and theologues, I would like to get some informed academic opinions on the methods and such of the "Purpose Driven Life," "seeker sensitve" movement and "church growth" movements type stuff.
I would like for it to be Biblical, Theological, exhortive, and edifying.
I WOULD NOT, however, want this to be a "free for all" to downgrade or criticize any brother minister becasue we certainly do not know the motivations of any one's heart.
I would however like to bring these thoughts together with the "Easy Believism" discussions we were having (which were very informative & enlightening) on the other thread.
Whatdayathink?
sdg!
rd
"Purpose Driven Life" et al as "Easy Believism" Yes or No!?
Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by Rhetorician, Apr 2, 2005.
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Rhetorician AdministratorAdministrator
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Articles for consideration:
On church growth ---
Click Here !
Irenic reviews of The Purpose Driven Church, The Purpose Driven Life, and 40 Days of Purpose --- Click Here .
Blessings,
Bill
edited to shorten links
[ April 02, 2005, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ] -
The two quotes below from Rick Warren's book, The Purpose Driven Life, seem to indicate that he does not believe in easy believism:
(page 58)
(page 79) -
In Mid-American Baptist Theological Seminary's most recent publication of the Journal of Evangelsim and Missions, they have an interesting article that contrasts the two ideologies of John MacArthur (Lordship Salvation) and Charles Ryrie (easy believism). It is an interesting article that is well written. The author takes the holds the view of Lordship salvation and defends his position by tracing the meaning of pisteuo (I'm at the office, I hope I didn't just butcher the word.) It points out some problems with what is seen in the seeker movement. A good read!
Matt -
Don't confuse Warrens Purpose Driven with "seeker". Far different animals and not alike in 99% of the areas.
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Rhetorician AdministratorAdministrator
As the Scripture says, "Say on . . . " concerning the contrast/compare of "Purpose Driven" and the "seeker sensitive" movement.
What is your take and understandng on the similarities/differences Dr. Bob?
"Far different animals and not alike in 99% of the areas." Please explain.
sdg!
rd -
Seeker Driven (aka Willow Creek) summarized from John MacArthur http://www.eternallifeministries.org/jm_ssm.htm
1. make worship services more "relevant"
2. make program/services more attractive to the world
3. minimizes and downplays the teaching of God's Word
4. content of the message is cut short; little preaching on sin or judgment
5. soften the truth to make it more palatable, skirting hard teaching on matters of repentance and the cost of discipleship
6. film clips, skits, comedy, pyrotechnics, light shows, over-indulgence in music
Now, I've been at Saddleback 3 times in the past few months. I don't claim to know all or be an expert on it, but it surely doesn't fit Mac's critique
1. Worship services more "relevant"? Yep
2. Program/services more attractive? Yep
3. Minimize/downplay the teaching of God's Word? Nope. Center of the service
4. Message is cut short; little preaching on sin or judgment? Nope, never had less than 45 minute preaching (Easter was over an hour preaching - in each of 12 services!)
5. Soften the truth? Nope, didn't hear a thing that was not sound doctrine
6. Film clips, skits, comedy, pyrotechnics, light shows, over-indulgence in music? Kinda. None of the junk Mac listed, but they do have GREAT music, blend of traditional and CCM and done first class. -
Dr. Bob,
Thanks for the report. I have always wanted to visit out there. -
4000 first-time salvation on Easter. All 4000 have been contacted (given Bible, PDL book, etc) and 1400+ have been through the 4-hour Christianity 101 at the church.
400 have been baptized since Easter. 95% are adults, not "inner-city bus kids". -
Lots of people slam Saddleback and PDL because they are simply spouting stuff they've heard from really poor preachers or woefully misinformed websites.
Feel that first-hand investigation and talking to primary sources helps me in evaluating the different "fads" out there in Christianity.
In the 1960's I talked with Billy Graham and two staff members about his organization. Decided to stay away from it as a result. In the 1970's I visited Pastor's School at Jack Hyle's FBC Hammond to see if it was so bad. Walked out before it was over.
Can't always do it personally - have never been to Willow Creek yet - but have had contact there and decided it WAS "christianity lite", if Christian at all. Some folks read "haters" like Cloud and just parrot their venom. Sad.