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Featured Question For My Reformed Brothers And Sistes, Will God Take Care Of Us?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Calv1, May 14, 2017.

  1. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    If we keep in mind that Gods way and thoughts are higher than ours... We will find that when we get to Heaven, Because of Gods Amazing Grace, Love, Truth and Mercy through the shed blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ... That the one standing next to us, is a child of the King... Even though in this life we had our doubts?... From the cradle to the grave HE WILL SAVE!... John saw an INNUMERABLE HOST AS THE SAND OF THE SEA AND THE STARS OF THE SKY, THAT NO MAN CAN NUMBER... GATHERED AROUND THE THRONE... These are the ELECT!... Any questions?... Brother Glen:)
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    One has to have a proper view on the results of the Fall in order to see it though!
     
  3. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    Innumerable number yes, high percentage of the population? No way. Jesus said "Wide is the gate that leads to destruction, and MANY that go there, but narrow is the way that leads to life, and FEW BE THAT FIND IT".

    I do agree many who we may not think will be there, many we are sure won't, only God knows the heart, only God knows the Elect.

    Why someone would want to be a Christian without the Holy Spirit, I have no idea. Growing up "God" was an embarrassment, we'd not even say the title, yet "MANY on that day will say Lord Lord, did we not......and I will say to them I never knew you, you who practice iniquity".

    I've seen that with Spurgeon and others, just shows the greatest of us make mistakes, he THEORIZED that if more were lost than saved, the devil would have the victory, but that's so far from the truth, IF ONE IS SAVED it's a miracle of grace to be shouted throughout the Universe.
     
  4. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    I don't think ANYONE DOES! Not that I have special insight, but how rare is it to hear commentators speaking of how fall ALL CREATION has fallen, Gorgeous Gems degrading to rocks, florescent tree's into what we see, speaking animals. Right, that is not biblical, it is what I believe, I also think it explains the seeming long age of the earth. Again MY THEORY, not found in the bible.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Many fail to see just HOW we were all spiritual killed off by the Fall....
     
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  6. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    Spend some time reading the works of Augustine.
     
  7. Calv1

    Calv1 Active Member

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    I have, but not enough! I tried Confessions and fell asleep! I'm told it's great. Tell me what would you recommend?
     
  8. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I agree, you should read up on Augustine
    ----
    ST. Augustine:
    "On the Nature of Good"

    Chapter 17.— Nature, in as Far as It is Nature, No Evil
    No nature, therefore, as far as it is nature, is evil; but to each nature there is no evil except to be diminished in respect of good. But if by being diminished it should be consumed so that there is no good, no nature would be left; not only such as the Manichæans introduce, where so great good things are found that their exceeding blindness is wonderful, but such as any one can introduce.
    -----

    The manichaens introduced total depravity, probably by mixing up Buddhist teachings of the first noble truth that all is suffering to a distortion that all is evil.

    The brilliant point Augustine makes is that if someone was totally diminished of what is "GOOD" then that entity would have no nature left at all.

    That is someone who is totally depraved can't be human and has already been destroyed.
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I have read his Confesions, what else would be good?
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No,. as total depravity refers to the spiritual aspect of humanity has now been killed off by the Fall, and that is what is reborn again in Christ!
     
  11. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Spiritual isn't a lesser reality separated from the physical world. If "spiritually" you are not human.....then you are not human!


    As Augustine says : But if by being diminished it should be consumed so that there is no good, no nature would be left;


    The very nature of humanity is GOOD. God created it. The evil is the absence of Good and nature. Evil is unnatural, not natural. So if something is devoid of good it is destroyed it is something else. If there is no good there is also nothing there to save. It would be like trying to find salvation for "murder" or "rape" there is nothing to save there it is completely evil it is totally depraved.

    That is why there no such thing as actually having a "sinful nature" although people can be very sinful.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Does anyone know what a "sistes" is?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    You are teaching heresy here in regards to our nature and need of Jesus, for by your theology, all of us are right with God when born, and so why even need a saviour?
     
  14. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    I never claimed perfect nature. The main point I am trying to make is that if you are Totally Depraved there is NOTHING THERE to save. There is nothing there GOOD, GOD MADE.

    Catholic Catechism:

    404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".293 By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

    405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam's descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ's grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    That is the heresy of baptismal regeneration ! and the Fall made us all spiritual dead to God and His ways!
     
  16. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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  17. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    Do you have a scriptural support for this view? I've read my Bible through many, many times and I have never seen anything that supports this view. Or, I am misunderstanding you? I do that sometimes.
     
  18. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    I do understand. It's hard to stay with it. It's much like reading Plato's republic. :eek:

    God Bless
     
  19. Katarina Von Bora

    Katarina Von Bora Active Member

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    I do understand. It's hard to stay with it. It's much like reading Plato's republic. :eek:

    God Bless
    Here is a hard fact. The catechism means nothing to me. But I use it to show the hypocrisy of Catholic teachings. I don't hate Catholics. I believe that some Catholics do love the Lord with all their heart and are therefore saved, but the rest is grave error.

     
  20. utilyan

    utilyan Well-Known Member
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    Well it would be a welcomed breathe of fresh air to hear opposition to Catholic teaching from the catechism rather then hearing opposition to phantom rules and beliefs we never held in the first place. I can't wait to hear about the errors.
     
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