Racism

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Huh? I honestly do not know to what you are referring.

I was referring only to BGTF, whose post I specifically quoted. I will not lie I have problem, not personally but theologically, with those who use the unequally yoked verses to condemn or dissuade others over interracial marriage. I can also honetly say I have never seen Romans 14 used as a caution for those who do intermarry. That's a new one, and not one I agree with by the way. If a fellow Christian stumbles in his faith because another Christian interracially marries, that stumbling Christian IS sinning, not the other way around.

The unequal yoke was not related to inter-racial marriage, they were two qualifications not one. Inter-racial marriages often have different background customs that many times can become stumbling blocks even to each other, that being said it isn't even easy within races to find a compatible spouse, but there are usually less obstacles. About the hardest thing a person can do in this life is pick the right spouse.

If you look at the big hurrah that this thread generated, you can see that this issue causes a stumbling block to some at least, no sense adding that to the already complicated situation of bringing two sinners together into one flesh.

It is just like the communion wafer, some people are absolutely convinced about it being leaven free, and others don't care. So in not offending those who are convinced it is best to offer a leaven free wafer.

Within Christianity, there are many choices between acceptable and better. With so many potential problems out there, the Christian's heart is always meant to be striving toward the best choice if possible.


BGTF

 

[Filmproducer]

I doubt you agree with his quote if you read his post as I did.
But I could be wrong

How did you read it?

 

[Filmproducer]

The unequal yoke was not related to inter-racial marriage, they were two qualifications not one. Inter-racial marriages often have different background customs that many times can become stumbling blocks even to each other, that being said it isn't even easy within races to find a compatible spouse, but there are usually less obstacles. About the hardest thing a person can do in this life is pick the right spouse.

If you look at the big hurrah that this thread generated, you can see that this issue causes a stumbling block to some at least, no sense adding that to the already complicated situation of bringing two sinners together into one flesh.

It is just like the communion wafer, some people are absolutely convinced about it being leaven free, and others don't care. So in not offending those who are convinced it is best to offer a leaven free wafer.

Within Christianity, there are many choices between acceptable and better. With so many potential problems out there, the Christian's heart is always meant to be striving toward the best choice if possible.


BGTF

Can you please tell me what you think some of these obstacles are for interracial couples?

 

[Mr.M]

How did you read it?

You read it correctly, there was no mystery. But for the record again, the unequally yoked only refers to believers and nonbelievers and has no legitimate application in attempting to regulate either directly or IN principle, interracial marriages.

By the way, I believe GracethroughFaith Clarified themselves in another post that they understand the contextual application.

 

[Filmproducer]

You read it correctly, there was no mystery. But for the record again, the unequally yoked only refers to believers and nonbelievers and has no legitimate application in attempting to regulate either directly or IN principle, interracial marriages.

By the way, I believe GracethroughFaith Clarified themselves in another post that they understand the contextual application.

1. That's what I thought

2. My initial post was before I had read the entire thread, so yes you are correct. My new question still pertains, though. I would really like to hear some of these hardships.

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Can you please tell me what you think some of these obstacles are for interracial couples?

Sure

Let's forget about colour or characteristics.

Here will be our two people with all other things being equal (including religious background).

1) American Husband
2) British Wife

Clash 1
In America, energy supply has been abundant, and Americans are used to pretty much wasting it because of it's low price here. However in Britain energy has been expensive, and they do things much differently. No such thing as buying and SUV there because there is nowhere to park, and fuel is so expensive. After they get back from their honeymoon, Mr. American Husband decides he is going to buy an SUV, Mrs. British wife flips out because she knows all the costs associated with it in her country. This causes many days of an unsettled home that could have been avoided.

Clash 2
British personalities tend to be stiffer than American personalities. American husband wonders why British wife is so cold, British wife wonders why American husband is so flamboyant, causes great distress in both.

And that is with all other things (including religion) being equal.

Marriage can be difficult enough at times, why not give it the best chance you can to make it work out?


BGTF

 

[Filmproducer]

Sure

Let's forget about colour or characteristics.

Here will be our two people with all other things being equal (including religious background).

1) American Husband
2) British Wife

Clash 1
In America, energy supply has been abundant, and Americans are used to pretty much wasting it because of it's low price here. However in Britain energy has been expensive, and they do things much differently. No such thing as buying and SUV there because there is nowhere to park, and fuel is so expensive. After they get back from their honeymoon, Mr. American Husband decides he is going to buy an SUV, Mrs. British wife flips out because she knows all the costs associated with it in her country. This causes many days of an unsettled home that could have been avoided.

Clash 2
British personalities tend to be stiffer than American personalities. American husband wonders why British wife is so cold, British wife wonders why American husband is so flamboyant, causes great distress in both.

And that is with all other things (including religion) being equal.

Marriage can be difficult enough at times, why not give it the best chance you can to make it work out?


BGTF

Okay you listed some difficulties that you perceive a multicultural couple may face, but completely ignored the real question. So, again, what kind of difficulties do you perceive an interracial couple to have?

 

[abcgrad94]

I am beginning to see your value system...

So you are for discrimination? If you are not against it, you must be for it...

I'd like to ask Mr. M this in a more direct way (if that's possible.)

Do you believe your race is superior to all others? A simple yes or no is enough for me.

 

[Mr.M]

I'd like to ask Mr. M this in a more direct way (if that's possible.)

Do you believe your race is superior to all others? A simple yes or no is enough for me.

Superior in what way? Please be more specific. And DO NOT take my response as any indication of a yes or no, I need more information to answer ACCURATELY. At no point have I revealed my personal view and even NOW I have not hinted.

So regarding your question, again, Superior in what way? Do you mean inherently more valuable as a human being or superior in the sense that my race possesses overall superior skills for life? Again, even my request for clarification should NOT and can NOT rightly be interpreted as an indication of any response. I still need clarification. Thanks

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

Okay you listed some difficulties that you perceive a multicultural couple may face, but completely ignored the real question. So, again, what kind of difficulties do you perceive an interracial couple to have?

The same kind.

Whether you like it or not, in every culture (yes even America) there is a perception that people should marry those of like race, culture, financial status etc. You should go to Japan where they will call you a 'round eye', or maybe go to the jungles of Africa where they believe that the white man is the cause of all of their problems, or visit Saudi Arabia looking for a bride with Bible in hand and see what it gets you. You can even hear the the cackles in America if a shoe-shine boy tried to marry a rich heiress. The melting pot idea of cultures and classes just does not work in the classic Marx utopia as everyone dreams it should. Ever wonder why that is?


BGTF

 

[abcgrad94]

Superior in what way? Please be more specific. And DO NOT take my response as any indication of a yes or no, I need more information to answer ACCURATELY. At no point have I revealed my personal view and even NOW I have not hinted.

So regarding your question, again, Superior in what way? Do you mean inherently more valuable as a human being or superior in the sense that my race possesses overall superior skills for life? Again, even my request for clarification should NOT and can NOT rightly be interpreted as an indication of any response. I still need clarification. Thanks

Both in skills for life AND as human beings. I guess what I want to know is are you just playing Devil's advocate or are you a true racist? I won't slam you either way, but I would like a clear answer so I don't need to interpret anything.

I'm not asking if certain races have a higher crime rate, etc. or your personal preference for socialization. I just want to know if you think your race is genetically "better, smarter, and of more human value" than other races. Thanks

 

[Filmproducer]

The same kind.

Whether you like it or not, in every culture (yes even America) there is a perception that people should marry those of like race, culture, financial status etc. You should go to Japan where they will call you a 'round eye', or maybe go to the jungles of Africa where they believe that the white man is the cause of all of their problems, or visit Saudi Arabia looking for a bride with Bible in hand and see what it gets you. You can even hear the the cackles in America if a shoe-shine boy tried to marry a rich heiress. The melting pot idea of cultures and classes just does not work in the classic Marx utopia as everyone dreams it should. Ever wonder why that is?


BGTF

No honestly I don't. I am a white woman that has been happily married to a black man for going on 12 years. Know what? We have not faced any cultural problems or difficulties, save a few off the wall comments from even fewer bigots over the years. Other interracial couples I know, personally, have not faced these difficulties either.

The common theme in all of your examples dealt with different cultural backgrounds. Again that is not interracial. My husband, skin color as different as it is, comes from the same type of family background for the most part.

 

[ByGracethroughFaith]

No honestly I don't. I am a white woman that has been happily married to a black man for going on 12 years. Know what? We have not faced any cultural problems or difficulties, save a few off the wall comments from even fewer bigots over the years. Other interracial couples I know, personally, have not faced these difficulties either.

The common theme in all of your examples dealt with different cultural backgrounds. Again that is not interracial. My husband, skin color as different as it is, comes from the same type of family background for the most part.

I am glad to hear it has worked out for you ma'am, you have been fortunate to have been married in an escalating economic period relatively free from social upheaval. With current geopolitical events unfolding, I don't believe it can last much longer though.


Take care,

BGTF

 

[Mr.M]

Both in skills for life AND as human beings. I guess what I want to know is are you just playing Devil's advocate or are you a true racist? I won't slam you either way, but I would like a clear answer so I don't need to interpret anything.

I'm not asking if certain races have a higher crime rate, etc. or your personal preference for socialization. I just want to know if you think your race is genetically "better, smarter, and of more human value" than other races. Thanks

Statistics clearly demonstrate (I refer you to the book The Bell Curve as just one of many research examples but not that book alone) that each race has certain characteristics that on average are either superior or inferior to another race. So in that case my race and other races possess superior and inferior characteristics. That means yes, in some cases there is obviously extensive research demonstrating an overall superiority in some areas and, No in some cases there is obviously extensive research demonstrating inferiority in some cases.

As far as inherent value, no race is more valuable than another race. Such a view in my opinion is absurd.

As far as devil's advocate, I wasn't playing that. The Scriptures do not address racism in all of its facets and so to make the blanket statement that it is sinful is unwarranted. Not all forms of racism involve hatred or the ideology that one race is inherently superior and should rule another.

And no, I am not a racist but I am a realist.

 

[abcgrad94]

As far as inherent value, no race is more valuable than another race. Such a view in my opinion is absurd.

As far as devil's advocate, I wasn't playing that. Not all forms of racism involve hatred or the ideology that one race is inherently superior and should rule another.

And no, I am not a racist but I am a realist.

Thank you for clarifying. I think what this boils down to, then, is that we have different definitions of racism. That's what I wanted to know.

 

[Filmproducer]

I am glad to hear it has worked out for you ma'am, you have been fortunate to have been married in an escalating economic period relatively free from social upheaval. With current geopolitical events unfolding, I don't believe it can last much longer though.


Take care,

BGTF

Don't believe what can last much longer? What again does economics or geopolitical events have to do with anything? If you are saying that my marriage has been successful because societal norms are changing, and it is more acceptable for interracial couples to be together, I would say you are correct. Other than that, your examples and comments do not apply to interracial marriages as much as multicultural or crosscultural relationships. Even then they are weak.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

The term "racism" is generally used and understood in the sense of an overall superiority of one race over another.

The term has however been used in recent years to create a victim in many cases where none actually exists.

It has become an effective political tool. There is a state representative in Orlando Fl that says black people cannot evern be racist as they do not have enough institutional power.

I would not want to stand before God to answer for racism.

 

[abcgrad94]

The term "racism" is generally used and understood in the sense of an overall superiority of one race over another.

The term has however been used in recent years to create a victim in many cases where none actually exists.

I agree completely. There are bigots to one extreme, and liberal opportunists on the other extreme. Neither are godly.

 

[Filmproducer]

Statistics clearly demonstrate (I refer you to the book The Bell Curve as just one of many research examples but not that book alone) that each race has certain characteristics that on average are either superior or inferior to another race. So in that case my race and other races possess superior and inferior characteristics. That means yes, in some cases there is obviously extensive research demonstrating an overall superiority in some areas and, No in some cases there is obviously extensive research demonstrating inferiority in some cases.

As far as inherent value, no race is more valuable than another race. Such a view in my opinion is absurd.

As far as devil's advocate, I wasn't playing that. The Scriptures do not address racism in all of its facets and so to make the blanket statement that it is sinful is unwarranted. Not all forms of racism involve hatred or the ideology that one race is inherently superior and should rule another.

And no, I am not a racist but I am a realist.

The Bell Curve? You do know that the Bell Curve is the epitome of bad science? It's social darwinism to the nth degree! Beyond that the book itself presented no compelling new data or even research to back up the ridiculous claims. So what statistics are you speaking of?

You say you are not a racist, but considering this post, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Might I suggest some reading materials for you? For starters let me suggest that you read The Mismeasure of Man, by Stephen Gould. I will be more than happy to list some more books which thoroughly debunk the Bell Curve, if you would like, as well.

Edited to say: While you may not consider yourself a racist, don't be surprised when everyone thinks you are. This is a better way to get my point accross. You may not believe one race to be superior over another, I don't know. You certainly are exhibiting extreme racialism.

 

[Mr.M]

The Bell Curve? You do know that the Bell Curve is the epitome of bad science? It's social darwinism to the nth degree! Beyond that the book itself presented no compelling new data or even research to back up the ridiculous claims. So what statistics are you speaking of?

You say you are not a racist, but considering this post, I'm going to have to disagree with you. Might I suggest some reading materials for you? For staters let me suggest that you read The Mismeasure of Man, by Stephen Gould. I will be more than happy to list some more books which thoroughly debunk the Bell Curve, if you would like, as well.

I have read the criticisms of the book by Harvard professors Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray. I think I'll defer to Hernstein and Murray and not a poster on BB. I have the book, I have read it and the criticisms. My guess is you've never even TOUCHED the book. Next please!