Featured Rain on the "Just" and "Unjust" ?

There is no one here that will ban you for "directly quoting God's word" What will get you banned is comments like this. Read this if you want to know what will get you banned. Quoting Scripture will not.

 

Oh, I am not so peaceful, I just know what I can say and what I can't.

Boy, are you right about the Calvinists though (generally speaking), they can call you heretic, Pelagian, and imply repeatedly that you are not saved (Iconoclast's personal specialty) and nothing ever happens. They have done this to me probably hundreds of times over the last four years. Of course, I am not intimidated by their words and never complain to the Mods.

But the few times I have gone a little over the line with them, usually after they have provoked me with insults, they boo hoo to the Mods. I have received infractions at least 11 times, almost all for "Insulted Other Member".

These guys don't even know a good insult, I grew up surfing, there is nobody more obnoxious than a group of surfers. I haven't even began to insult these guys. If I really pulled out the heavy artillery, some of these guys would probably try to hunt me down and shoot me. :laugh:

Bunch of crybabies.

 

Of course, they neglect to tell their hearers that many of them cannot believe. Now, that is what they truly believe, but they will not tell them that until they have already believed. Then they tell the person that believed they had to be regenerated to believe.

Double talk. Fact is, the Philipian jailer refutes what you believe. He could not possibly have been regenerated, because he had not yet believed (you believe that regeneration and faith occur at the same moment), yet he had a sincere desire to be saved. Cornelius was also not regenerated, not knowing the gospel, and yet he feared God, prayed always, and gave much alms to the people. God was so pleased with Cornelius he sent an angel to tell him to send for Peter where he would hear the gospel and believe. Cornelius was still unregenerated at this time, and yet he obeyed God.

The problem here is that the scriptures plainly say God is no respecter of persons. If all men are equally sinners, then God should either save all men, or allow all men to perish. To save only some is to be a respecter of persons.

Calvinism is just plain error.

 

Do tell when the last time any of those men gave out the gospel! First of all, Calvinists often resort to evangelistic ministers from HUNDREDS of years ago to attempt validation of their current styled churches. Not all of these men were consistent Calvinists and often contradicted themselves FREQUENTLY on issues such as free will, the offer of the gospel, and limited atonement. (Not sure which of Calvin's beliefs applied to Jonathan Edwards ownership of slaves, but that's another matter

But again, these men, just as Calvinist churches today, are preaching one message to the lost, and another message to their church members.

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Do you see the contradictory logic in your own reasoning?? "It could be accepted if the person WANTED TO ACCEPT IT" vs "God has every right to create people and NOT OFFER salvation to anyone". That is a BLATANT contradiction that is typical of Calvinist double-speak.

The Arminian nor average Non Calvinist believes that ANY sinner or saved person deserves heaven and does not or did not deserve hell. That is not the issue. The issue is God WANTED to condemn a person by a DECREED, PRE DETERMINED (meaning before the sinner was even born) WILL TO CONDEMN THE PERSON TO AN ETERNALLY IN HELL.

No person can "accept the offer IF HE WANTS TO" and be PREDETERMINED to be damned AT THE SAME TIME. That is a wholly inconsistent statement and an outright contradiction.

But the offer of salvation was the remedy that God provided FOR ALL to avoid what we justly deserve as sinners. The difference is is that such offer is NOT offered to all. The argument is not whether God was obligated to offer anything, it is in HOW it is offered where Calvinism defies the very nature of God and is at odds with Scripture. God can not be a perfect loving God if He DESIRED and WANTED the damnation of humans before they were even born. You are continuing to miss the point about the difference between what we DESERVE as sinners, and what God WANTS and DESIRES of the sinner before they were ever created. There is a difference in God punishing sin because it is deserved when He has given man an offer to avoid it, from God planning ahead of time to never offer a remedy, and simply planning ahead of time to condemn a sinner simply because He can, and because He WANTS TO.

As stated above, Calvinists offer one message to the unsaved, and another to their members about the nature of salvation. The Calvinists consistently use rhetoric to gain converts that they DO NOT BELIEVE IN THEIR THEOLOGY

 

Yeah, it's like abusive cops, most of these guys got their butts beat in school by everybody, so they become a cop so they can push people around. I know two guys that perfectly fit this mold, and both were kicked off the force for being abusive to people.

That said, there are many good and decent police officers. I am talking about the ones that like to beat on people.

 

You don't care to respond to the D.A. Carson post which answered your query, either.

 

Inspector, I applaud your openness, vulnerability and downright HONESTY.

 

Saturn, I think you might misinterpret the rough edges and passion of the inspector. I think his picture of a "love sick fool" was not a declaratory pronouncement, rather a visceral response to address issues he interpreted in the thread. But if I am wrong...He will correct my observation.

 

I, however, DID answer the post about Carson And showed that not only did it not affect the OP, but actually SUPPORTED the accusations of the OP.

Post 7

Post 14

and

Post 26

 

And God only saves some me. Only a universalist would disagree with that.

 

They didn't contradict themselves. I only mentioned them because of our accusation of "dishonest."

Again, not true. Not at all.

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Do you see the contradictory logic in your own reasoning?? "It could be accepted if the person WANTED TO ACCEPT IT" vs "God has every right to create people and NOT OFFER salvation to anyone". That is a BLATANT contradiction that is typical of Calvinist double-speak.[/quote]It's not a contradictions at all. You must not have read it correctly.
1. Salvation is offered to all. Anyone that wants to accept it will.
2. Go didn't have to offer salvation. He didn't have to offer it to anyone.

I'm not sure how that's a contradiction to say something was offered but didn't have to be.

But that is the issue. Does man deserve hell? Yes. So if God didn't offer him salvation he would go to hell for his sins. People go to hell because they are sinners. Because God has offered salvation and they reject this salvation, they go to hell because they are sinners. so if God decreed to create people and not offer them salvation, they would go to hell because of their sins. I don't believe he did this, but the truth is still the same. ALL people that go to hell deserve to go because of their sin, regardless if God offers salvation or not.

Not a contradiction at all. It shows your misunderstanding of election. God doesn't reject anyone that wants to be saved.

I would disagree. It is offered to all. Some men reject this offer and thus have to spend eternity in hell.

Again, damnation of humans is something that is deserved. God can be a perfect loving God if he wanted to create people that would sin against him and he would send them to hell because of their sin and never offer a way of salvation.

God wants and desires men to obey him.

No one here disagrees with God punishing sin because it is deserved. ALL people that go to hell go because they deserve it. God does not have to offer a remedy for man to deserve hell. No one believes that God predetermined to send innocent people to hell, but only to send guilty people to hell. Your statements look like you believe that people believe that God predetermines to send innocent people to hell, that's not the case.

Again, a false statement to your brothers in Christ. I teach what the Bible teaches.

 

SN, no worries, I'm sure he will be banned (again) soon enough and rightly so. Inspector Javert = HeirofSalvation, just look at some of his posts, pull up both profiles, notice his friends, etc. I'm sure I'll be called a few names for pointing this out, but this guy's temper is so bad he just gives all of BB a bad image.

 

Mt5:45 does not speak to the love of God, but rather the goodness of God meant to lead men to repentance.

 

I'll make this real simple.

Do you believe that God loves everybody, including the sinner/unsaved?

If you were to witness to sinner/unsaved, do you tell them that God loves them, and if so, what verses in the Bible to you use to tell them that God loves them.