1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Regarding John 3:16, which do you prefer?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by alexander284, Dec 29, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. alexander284

    alexander284 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    145
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Regarding John 3:16, which do you prefer:

    "only begotten son"

    OR

    "one and only son"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Only son", "one of a kind son" or "unique son".
    μονογενής (monogenes) is highlighting the uniqueness of of the son. It is saying no other is like Him.


    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. alexander284

    alexander284 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    145
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And regarding the phrase "only begotten son?"

    What is your perspective regarding that?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. McCree79

    McCree79 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    2,047
    Likes Received:
    251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Makes Jesus sound like a created being. It also misses what is at the heart of mongenes

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. alexander284

    alexander284 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    145
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Good point. I like that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    8,658
    Likes Received:
    953
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "only begotten son"
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Just_Ahead

    Just_Ahead Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    99
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Like Like x 1
  8. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    922
    Faith:
    Baptist
    But why? (Other than that is the KJV rendering)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    8,658
    Likes Received:
    953
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Seems like around the middle of the 20th century or so, the tide turned toward translating monogenes as only, unique, or one & only. (RSV goes with “his only Son”) Prior to that only begotten held sway.

    A few years ago Denny Burk wrote on the subject, particularly referencing the recent work of Lee Irons on the word monogenes. Burk: Deep in the Weeds on MONOGENES and Eternal Generation. Burk's opinion, for what it's worth, is that “Lee [Iron]’s argument will eventually carry the day. The evidence is overwhelming.”

    To me it seems like a lot of people, unfortunately, are swayed one way or another based on their opinion of the the doctrine of eternal generation.

    Burk's point about the Nicene Creed is intriguing, even though on the other side Doug Kutilek claims that “the Nicene Creed’s affirmation that Christ was “begotten but not made” (gennethenta, ou poiethenta) so much verbal nonsense.” Whether or not their theology is spot on, seems like the Greek speakers writing the Nicene Creed probably understood their own language.
     
    #9 rlvaughn, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. alexander284

    alexander284 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    145
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I, personally, cannot decide which is the better option! :)
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    16,189
    Likes Received:
    1,598
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I prefer "only begotten son" or "only Son".

    The reason is IMHO "one of a kind son" or "unique son" misses the point of "son" that "begotten" emphasizes and is implied in "Son". All children are unique and one of a kind. The point is what would be communicated by "son of God" in the Hebrew tradition.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. alexander284

    alexander284 Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    145
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I see your point! I guess if I had to choose, I'd prefer "only Son." :)
     
    #12 alexander284, Jan 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,812
    Likes Received:
    9
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If you had 2 sons but one died of an accident, you have one son now, and you can call him the only son or one and only Son.

    But if you had only one son from the beginning, and now you have that son only, he is the only begotten son.

    The reason why Heb 11:17 used Monogene for Isaac is because Isaac was the only begotten by the Seed of Promise though Abraham had 6 sons.

    Eliyahu
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. davidtaylorjr

    davidtaylorjr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2019
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    922
    Faith:
    Baptist
    This is not true. The fact that they have passed on does not negate the fact you do have another son.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    38,928
    Likes Received:
    1,698
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Doesn't only Begotten though is used to actually denote his eternal existence, as being one with the father? Kind of tied into the prologue of John also?
     
  16. Benyamin

    Benyamin New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2020
    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    9
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I'd prefer "Only Begotten". It's consistent with the Nicene creed's saying Jesus is "begotten, not created".
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Washad

    Washad New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Messages:
    27
    Likes Received:
    10
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Only Begotten
    God has more sons (or children if you prefer). 1 John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God... Also John 1:12 and as many as received Him to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name.
    Believers are a "new creation, born again, and given the adoption of sons".
    Begotten tells us why Christ unique.
    Like post 16 said He was begotten not created.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    974
    Faith:
    Baptist
    TDNT goes with "only begotten" in John. That work has been accused of depending too much on etymology, but in this case I don't think it does. I agree with "only begotten" in John, and we used a Japanese equivalent for that in the Lifeline Japanese New Testament, 唯一生まれたご子息.

    Back in the 1950's-1960's there was some controversy about the meaning of monogenes, and conservatives went with "only begotton" in those days. Maybe because of that, ever since I learned that some modern versions went with "unique," I've felt that was a weak word to use for Christ. We are all unique in some way or other. To simply say Christ was unique doesn't tell us how He was unique, but "only begotten of the Father" does specify His uniqueness.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    13,865
    Likes Received:
    251
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Neither - monogenes means "one of a kind" or "unique."

    "begotten" is a well known mistranslation
    Jesus is not God's only son, because both Adam and every born anew believer is God's "son."
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. John of Japan

    John of Japan Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    15,725
    Likes Received:
    974
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Ever heard of polysemy?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...