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Regeneration ---- Then Faith
- Thread starter tnelson
- Start date
Yeah, it means "whosoever out of ALL and may be 'all of', 'most of', 'half of', 'some of', or 'any of'. Yes, I agree it is a particular word but it is not a limiting word.
That's because I don't believe the human spirit to be dead, but very much alive and capable of resceiving the word of God, believing unto salvation and thereby receiving Everlasting Life.
Have you ever noticed this little box all around us...a wall above what I write, one to each side and one beneath...Hello Walls...hello, hello, hello.
there is an echo also. What limits 'whosoever' then Yelsew2... is it these walls maybe?
When you discover that, then tell what binds the word of God.
Bro. Dallas
there is an echo also. What limits 'whosoever' then Yelsew2... is it these walls maybe?
When you discover that, then tell what binds the word of God.
Bro. Dallas
Yelsew2,
How many people do you know will openly and willingly admit they want to, or otherwise do not care to be condemned to hell throughout eternity?
I actually know of one person who has openly made a similar statement to me.
How many do you know?
Does this admission mean they do not believe the gospel message?
Then, if by your understanding belief can be cast away and the person then be lost after having once believed, explain to me how something (inside of a sane mind) is 'unbelieved'.
In doing this, include who, or by what power the law of God is written on the hearts and mind of his people.
You are welcome to take your time in presenting the long list of folks who you have witnessed to who have believed the condemnation part of the gospel message, but have not believed unto salvation. That one will definitely take time to make, I am sure.
You of course are welcome to take as much time as needed to show me all the people you have ever met (possessing a sane mind) who have 'unbelieved' having once 'believed'.
When you finish compiling these lists and your defense for each list, just post it, I will find it.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
How many people do you know will openly and willingly admit they want to, or otherwise do not care to be condemned to hell throughout eternity?
I actually know of one person who has openly made a similar statement to me.
How many do you know?
Does this admission mean they do not believe the gospel message?
Then, if by your understanding belief can be cast away and the person then be lost after having once believed, explain to me how something (inside of a sane mind) is 'unbelieved'.
In doing this, include who, or by what power the law of God is written on the hearts and mind of his people.
You are welcome to take your time in presenting the long list of folks who you have witnessed to who have believed the condemnation part of the gospel message, but have not believed unto salvation. That one will definitely take time to make, I am sure.
You of course are welcome to take as much time as needed to show me all the people you have ever met (possessing a sane mind) who have 'unbelieved' having once 'believed'.
When you finish compiling these lists and your defense for each list, just post it, I will find it.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
You assume that I agree with your fleece!
People lose their faith by not using their faith! They lose their faith by not continually refreshing their understanding of the truth. They lose their faith by not "putting on the whole armor of God" and doing battle with the temptations that bombard them, enticing them into sins that, if not confessed, will lead them away from their faith.
It is not a sudden thing to establish faith, and it is not a sudden thing to lose faith. it is gradual in both cases. But in the case of falling away, it is also very subtle. Not even Paul's faith was sudden, you see Paul, as Saul, was a man of FAITH. His faith however was in the wrong place, and Jesus stopped him and turned him in the right direction.
No sir, no list is forthcoming, though I could list at least 12 of my 20 aunt's and uncles who at one time confessed Jesus before their death, only to go through death lacking faith in God. Each of them will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus will say depart from me, I never knew you.
I have confronted many a man who openly rejects the Word of God, Not willing to hear the Gospel message. Not willing to entertain the concept that there is a heaven and hell. I have also confronted many who are of the eastern faiths who openly reject Jesus Christ, without knowing the truth. Islam is such a religion, and those who hold to it steadfastly refuse to hear the Word of God, let alone accept the truth that Jesus died for them too. One of my dear acquaintences is staunchly Buddhist and we talk often of our faiths and how each deals with "life". He refuses to accept Jesus as anything more than a good teacher like Buddha.
No Bro. Dallas, I'll not provide you with a list, that is a fruitless exercise.
What point are you trying to make that you would need a list from me?
People lose their faith by not using their faith! They lose their faith by not continually refreshing their understanding of the truth. They lose their faith by not "putting on the whole armor of God" and doing battle with the temptations that bombard them, enticing them into sins that, if not confessed, will lead them away from their faith.
It is not a sudden thing to establish faith, and it is not a sudden thing to lose faith. it is gradual in both cases. But in the case of falling away, it is also very subtle. Not even Paul's faith was sudden, you see Paul, as Saul, was a man of FAITH. His faith however was in the wrong place, and Jesus stopped him and turned him in the right direction.
No sir, no list is forthcoming, though I could list at least 12 of my 20 aunt's and uncles who at one time confessed Jesus before their death, only to go through death lacking faith in God. Each of them will say "Lord, Lord" but Jesus will say depart from me, I never knew you.
I have confronted many a man who openly rejects the Word of God, Not willing to hear the Gospel message. Not willing to entertain the concept that there is a heaven and hell. I have also confronted many who are of the eastern faiths who openly reject Jesus Christ, without knowing the truth. Islam is such a religion, and those who hold to it steadfastly refuse to hear the Word of God, let alone accept the truth that Jesus died for them too. One of my dear acquaintences is staunchly Buddhist and we talk often of our faiths and how each deals with "life". He refuses to accept Jesus as anything more than a good teacher like Buddha.
No Bro. Dallas, I'll not provide you with a list, that is a fruitless exercise.
What point are you trying to make that you would need a list from me?
The point is that not do we know Jesus, but that does he know us.
See your quote above, a scripturally solid statement I might add.
He shall say "I never knew you". Not, you never knew me, or you knew me for a time but not perseverring, or I knew you but lost you because I was busy 'holding' someone else and couldn't keep you by my grace.
No, dear brother, his statement is only, "I never knew you".
plain, simple, refuting all the 'do you know Jesus' or you can lose it if you don't use it rhetoric.
May God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
It is not Jesus's personal knowledge of us that sets us apart (sanctifies us) it is our faith in HIM that sanctifies us.
Remember, all of this transaction takes place after our physical death, and I believe it is after judgment of deeds that the separation of the sheep from the goats takes place where Jesus tells those who lack faith in Him to depart from Him that He never knew them, even thought they come crying out "Lord Lord".
It is those who failed to give drink to the thirsty, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner, care for the sick, etc., while claiming the name of Jesus, that will get turned away. It is this judgment that confirms James' and Peter's "faith without works is dead", for if you know Jesus and He knows you, you will do these things bringing honor to Him. These are what he did while with us, and would be doing if among us physically today.
Remember, all of this transaction takes place after our physical death, and I believe it is after judgment of deeds that the separation of the sheep from the goats takes place where Jesus tells those who lack faith in Him to depart from Him that He never knew them, even thought they come crying out "Lord Lord".
It is those who failed to give drink to the thirsty, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the prisoner, care for the sick, etc., while claiming the name of Jesus, that will get turned away. It is this judgment that confirms James' and Peter's "faith without works is dead", for if you know Jesus and He knows you, you will do these things bringing honor to Him. These are what he did while with us, and would be doing if among us physically today.
Originally posted by Yelsew:
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth
Of course, the bold emphasis is mine. I just thought I might be able to help you a little. This says believers are chosen from the beginning (by God), through sanctification of the Spirit (being set apart by the Holy Spirit) and belief of the truth (hearing of the preached word---the gospel). This last is supported further in vs. 14 where the gospel is spoken. But it is because of being chosen from the beginning by God, being set apart through the Spirit and (also) the belief of the truth of the preached word.
You simply cannot get around it dear brother. You have tried ever since I have known you, but you simply cannot do it successfully.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
What saith the Word of God?
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth
Of course, the bold emphasis is mine. I just thought I might be able to help you a little. This says believers are chosen from the beginning (by God), through sanctification of the Spirit (being set apart by the Holy Spirit) and belief of the truth (hearing of the preached word---the gospel). This last is supported further in vs. 14 where the gospel is spoken. But it is because of being chosen from the beginning by God, being set apart through the Spirit and (also) the belief of the truth of the preached word.
You simply cannot get around it dear brother. You have tried ever since I have known you, but you simply cannot do it successfully.
God Bless
Bro. Dallas Eaton
Well, you simply negate the words of Jesus, the Son of God, the Christ, who says "...whosoever believeth..." meaning any out of ALL, from 1 to infinity, that believes. And, "Come unto me all ye who labor and I will give you rest" again, any of ALL, from 1 to infinity! Who will come? Any out of ALL who believes!
That which sanctifies one from another is FAITH! FAITH ALONE is the separator in the final judgment! The Holy Spirit does not abide with the FAITHLESS ones, only those who have FAITH
That which sanctifies one from another is FAITH! FAITH ALONE is the separator in the final judgment! The Holy Spirit does not abide with the FAITHLESS ones, only those who have FAITH
27"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Matthew 11)
Yelsew,
How do you use verse 28 without 27?
“And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else” --C.H. Spurgeon
28"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. (Matthew 11)
Yelsew,
How do you use verse 28 without 27?
“And what is the heresy of Arminianism but the addition of something to the work of the Redeemer? Every heresy, if brought to the touchstone, will discover itself here. I have my own private opinion that there is no such thing as preaching Christ and Him crucified, unless we preach what nowadays is called Calvinism. It is a nickname to call it Calvinism; Calvinism is the gospel, and nothing else” --C.H. Spurgeon
Here is what I wrote in consideration with Romans 7:18:
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature (flesh). (Romans 7:18a)
I believe there are two aspects to why Paul made this statement:
1. He understood the total depravity and inability of the flesh through his personal spiritual experience.
2. He knew it was true in accordance with scriptures:
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. (Gen. 8:21)
..............
You stated Paul wrote Romans 7:18 because he was depressed and we shouldn't take him too literally. Wow!
My method of interpretation is not comparable with yours. In fact, I don't know any theologian in history who has your method of Pauline interpretation. Are we to take Galations 1:8 literally, or did Paul write that because he was in a bad mood?
I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature (flesh). (Romans 7:18a)
I believe there are two aspects to why Paul made this statement:
1. He understood the total depravity and inability of the flesh through his personal spiritual experience.
2. He knew it was true in accordance with scriptures:
The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of man, even though every inclination of his heart is evil from childhood. (Gen. 8:21)
..............
You stated Paul wrote Romans 7:18 because he was depressed and we shouldn't take him too literally. Wow!
My method of interpretation is not comparable with yours. In fact, I don't know any theologian in history who has your method of Pauline interpretation. Are we to take Galations 1:8 literally, or did Paul write that because he was in a bad mood?
yelsew2,
This is a personal attack that has nothing to do with Spurgeon's doctrinal position.
Now, you have made an insinuating claim against a man unable to defend his honor. For this reason, I humbly ask you provide reason for your accusation.
There are things I disagree with Spurgeon concerning what he believed. But, to add this accusation of yours to his memory is worse than the battle he did face in the downgrade controversy during his life---that too laid to his feet by what ought to have been brethren in the faith, but betrayed him to personal allegiance to human philosophy.
Now, produce your reason for this insinuation, I will read it and then I will make a determination of what I can receive concerning the character of C.H. Spurgeon.
Otherwise, do not attack the character of a man simply because he is willing to pour out his life in defense of the doctrines of Christ. He has shown all where his altar is found, where his Bethel lies and where the his drink offering has been poured out. And you cannot refute his soundness through the Word of God, so you bring to bear against him these insinuations that are typical of political back-biting.
The Bible tells us to not cast our pearls before the swine, we ought to also not take of the husks the swine leave for the unbelieving population.
Bro. Dallas Eaton