What "unspeakable atrocities" are you referring to if they are so 'unspeakable?'
And how was 'science' not involved?
Please keep in mind that the topic is on the religion of evolution, not Christianity.
Religion of Evolution
Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by jcrawford, Apr 3, 2004.
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UTE:
"I hope we have lurkers reading this now who have not made up their minds or who are open to changing their views."
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Proselytising evolutionary religous views again? -
UTE:
"People have done dispicable things in the name of Christianity through the years.'
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Evolutionists continue to do even more dispicable things this Century than they did in the last.
This topic is on the religion of evolution in the 'other religious doctrines' forum.
Let's stop attacking Christianity, Christians. -
jcrawford, you know that Christianity is not being attacked. It is the argument against evolution that evolutionist have done evil things and therefore evolution is false that is being attacked.
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a) what has that got to do with Christianity?
b) why make any references at all to Christianity?
c) is "evil" a scientific concept?
d) do you not think evolution is evil?
e) what epistomological system are you using in order to form a qualified judgement? -
One could argue that just because evolutionism is bad science and has nothing of substance to support it - it does not mean that some proof for it won't be found for it some day.
Indeed. But until then - why cling to the religion of evolutionism with all its bad guesswork and bad doctrines?
As Richard Dawkings points out - that is a grossly compromised position for any Christian to take since evolutionism claims to explain all that God does in terms of creating robust complex living planets.
I think all Christians who accept the accuracy of the "Account" the Creator gives in Genesis 1-2:3 and Exodus 20:8-11 - would have to agree.
This leaves Christian evolutionists in a hopelessly compromised position where Creationists and evolutionist expose the massive gap in their logic as they cling to BOTH the evolutionism of humanism and the Gospel of the Word of God.
I know this seems obvious to all - but it bears repeating.
In Christ,
Bob -
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jcrawford,
That doesn't look like taking the basic scientific theory of evolution and using it to prove the non-existence of God to me. Was it intended as such? If so, I will offer a critique of the reasoning. -
I do have some problems with some of the ones posting here. It is your logic. Since this is a forum for at least those who profess Christianity you must beieve at the very least in the exisence of God. If you believe that God exists, then what kind of God do you believe in? Is your God so anemic that He does not have the power or even the right to take on the name "Creator." If God exists, is he not powerful enough to create the world in six days as the Bible says he did.
Either the ones posting here believe in Christianity in general, or they are atheists. There is no middle ground. Evolution is the antithesis of the foundation of the Bible--Creation. God is our creator. Only an atheist would deny that fact. It is God Himself who calls that person a fool!
Psalms 14:1 The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt. They have done abominable works. There is none who does good.
Evolution is its own religion void of real science that has replaced God with its "scientiscm."
As far as radiometric dating is concerned, as I mentioned it, along as other dating methods, are full of assumptions that make these methods very unreliable. I leave you with an excerpt from a grade 9 Christian textbook that answers your question about radiometric dating.
DHK -
From your book quotes:
Bottom line: radioactive determination of the age of the earth and moon and the solar system remain good evidence for the age of the earth. Atoms do not lie. They keep God's timetable accurately and have revealed what God wanted us to find out when He put them there. -
P of E:
"What is this "law of uniformitarianism" and what's wrong with it?"
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Law of Uniformity is the geological principle which assumes that current physical processes can account for all historical physical phenomena.
It was invented to discount any supernatural intervention in world history such as the worldwide catastrophic flood which submerged all the land and uplifted mountains from the bowels of the earth beneath the oceans.
It's wrong because the evidence of the worldwide cataclysm known as the Great Flood is all around us. -
P of E:
"Pay closer attention. I profess that God is my creator. So do the rest of us posting on this board."
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But you deny that God once destroyed the world and changed heaven and earth with the worldwide flood as both Genesis and the creation scientists show. -
2 Peter 3:3-4 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, "all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation."
Notice:
#1. It is the scoffers (scorners, mockers, of God's Word) that believe in this law.
#2. All things have not continued the same as they were from the beginning of Creation. We have abundant evidence that they haven't. The worldwide flood is but one. When one examines data they must interpret according to their philosophical frame. Science cannot determine truth. It observes facts and draws concusions. Often its conclusions wrong. The Bible alone is truth. If your philosophical framework is evolution you will be wrong every time. If your philosophical frame work is the Bible you are bound to be right. Take the Grand Canyon for example. Evolution would have us believe that throughout millions of years the Colorado river slowly eroded away that vast rock and formed that huge canyon. Incredible! No, a Great Flood in a short period of time with a huge, tremendous force, bearing down upon that area of land formed that canyon. We observe the data around the canyon. We interpret according to our philosophical framework. One is humanistic and atheistic. One is Biblical and sets forth the truth that God has revealed to us. Not everything has continued (if anything) has continued the same from the beginning of creation. There have been cataclysms of various natures since the time of creation which the evolutionist does not take into consideration.
What ideas? The scientific method? Do you actually use it. Do you use the scientifc method in the dating of rocks? Would you care to explain how each step of the scientic method is followed in the dating of rocks. We can observe many things. For years people would gaze up at the moon and observe the "face" looking down upon them. Some would observe "the man on the moon." Others, deep dark craters full of water, some wild interpretations of the moon being made of green cheese. Whar was your observation? Your observations are relative to your preconceived ideas and your philosophical framework that you are working from. You are observing some things, but do not have all the evidence to interpret your facts. It is pure guess work. You have left open to your interpretation too many assumptions, and therefore can draw unwarranted conclusions. It was not until man landed on the moon that he could actually tell what it was made of, and what those craters actually were. You also have to get to the source of your rocks. You assume too much.
[QUOTEyes we do because it has been checked. Radioactive decay is observed in astronomy from starlight millions and even billions of years old to be perfectly consistent with what we see today.</font>Click to expand...
But on the whole, Christians who believe in a literal six-day Creation are skeptical of old-earth estimates. The general mistrust that believers have for dating methods to understandable, considering that evolutionary theory was considered "scientific fact" long before radioactive dating techniques were developed.Click to expand...Translation: There was scientific evidence for an old earth before radioactive decay methods were developed, and they only confirmed the truth of an older earth.Click to expand...
Christians believe the Bible. The Bible states that the universe, the earth, and all that was created therein was created in the space of six days. The Bible determines truth, not science. Science forever changes. The Bible never changes. The Bible, time and time again proves the scientist has been wrong all along and then the scientist has to change his ways. Case in point: The Bible does teach a spherical earth. The Bible does teach that the life of the flesh is in the blood, far after Washington died of blood-letting when they didn't believe this concept.
How much correction is needed from the actual data of tree rings? At the most, about 5%.
Bottom line: radioactive determination of the age of the earth and moon and the solar system remain good evidence for the age of the earth. Atoms do not lie. They keep God's timetable accurately and have revealed what God wanted us to find out when He put them there.Click to expand...
DHKClick to expand... -
DHK
You are still using the verse in 2 Peter out of context. It is talking about people who doubt the prophocies of the end times because they have yet to happen. -
Originally posted by UTEOTW:
DHK
You are still using the verse in 2 Peter out of context. It is talking about people who doubt the prophocies of the end times because they have yet to happen.Click to expand...
The last days are now. The last days started with the ascension (or perhaps even the resurrection) of Christ. Peter and Paul were living in the last days. They were living with the expectation of the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and his imminent return.
2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
This is Paul writing to Timothy in a pastoral epistle. He is advising Timothy that in the last days (occuring in his life time) perilous will come, and therefore be prepared for them. He would have no need to write this advice to Timothy if the expectation of it occurring would not be within the lifetime of Timothy.
The last days were from the time of the resurrection, lasting until the time of when Christ comes again. We live in the last times, and so did Paul. Of what century or millennia did you think Peter was prophesing of? If you think he was prophesying of another time, then you must be declaring yourself to be a prophet yourself--in that case a false one.
DHK -
Notice that when you directly deal with the great contradiction between the doctrines of evolutionism and the Word of God - evolutionists fall silent.
They would rather play the rabbit-trail game of one failed claim after another in the fossil record. But on a Christian message board - you have to address "both problems" not just the bad science used to review the fossil record.
When Richard Dawkings deals directly with the subject of Christianity and evolution and the "bad marriage this makes" since in his words the claims of evolutionism cover all the Creative acts of God -- he deals with the subject of this thread.
And yet...
In Christ,
Bob -
You guys leave me speechless.
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It is often the case that forgeries find ready acceptance among those religiously inclined to "believe" what the forgery promotes. (The Donation of Constantine comes to mind).
In the same way - the failed hopes of evolutionism's "faithful" have created the ideal climate for "hoaxes".
Notice.
History of forgeries. *Hoyle, *Watkins, and the others checked into historical sources and declared that they had discovered that, dating back to the early 18th century, the Solnhofen limestone area (where the only specimen's of Archaeopteryx have ever been found) was notorious for its fossil forgeries.
Genuine fossils, taken from the limestone quarries, had been altered and then sold to museums. These fossils brought good money because they appeared to be strange new speciesClick to expand...
In Christ,
Bob
In Christ,
Bob -
DHK
You are arguing against the wrong part.
It is quite obvious that Paul is talking about the end times and not something that was close at hand at the time of the writing. You did not need to prove that. Where you are incorrectly using the verse is in applying it to unifomitarianism. "All things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation" means, in context, those who say that we have had these prophecies of the end of time for a very long time and nothing has ever happened so i do not believe they will come true at this point in time either. It is very evident.
I do not believe that you can provide ANY corroboration that Paul actually meant geology here. I would be just as justified as you to turn the verse around in support of my position. I could call YECers the "scoffers" mentioned here for insisting that the species have been constant and unchanging despite all the evidence to the contrary. See, Paul agrees with me. ;) -
Notice:
#1. It is the scoffers (scorners, mockers, of God's Word) that believe in this law.
#2. All things have not continued the same as they were from the beginning of Creation. We have abundant evidence that they haven't. The worldwide flood is but one.Click to expand...
Evolutionism teaches its followers to say "oh no He did not".
The Word of God says all life on land was destroyed by a world wide flood.
Evolutionism teaches its followers to say "oh no that is not what destroyed life on earth - it was a meteor and that meteor did not wipe out ALL life on land".
Repeatedly the speculations and guesswork of man are propped up against the Word of God - in ways that even Atheist evolutionists can "see" to be in direct contradiction to the Bible.
And yet...
In Christ,
Bob
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