Just curious...
When do you see the "New Birth" happening in life of a Christian?
Do you see "being born again" as a second/spiritual resurrection stage?
When did/will ALL of the dead bodies of saints come out of their graves and meet Lord in the Air?
In History, when did Jesus with voice of Archangel, and Trump of God happen?
Resurrection
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, May 20, 2011.
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asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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--The manner in which he went was visible and physical.
This is the same manner in which he would come again. How do you get anything else out of this. This is what the angels were emphasizing to the apostles. Why are you gazing? He is coming again! And he is coming in the same visible way that he went! It won't be invisible. He is saying the exact opposite of what you believe.
You said (how) Christ is to return. The how is visibly and physically. What else could the "how" refer to?
Secondly, was Stephen lying? Are you doubting what he saw? Vision or no vision, why would he say those words. For example Peter had a vision of a sheet filled with unclean animals. In the vision did he see what he told us, or was he deceived and saw something else. Is the Word of God accurate and telling the truth about what he saw? Is the Word of God accurate in recording what Stephen saw? Did Stephen see Jesus Christ standing or not? Why would Stephen lie?
Thirdly, what else does the Bible say about Christ?
Where is Christ right now?
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Hebrews 12:2)
--Right now he is in a resurrection body seated on the right hand of the throne of God. He has a physical body. He is sitting down.
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; (Hebrews 1:3)
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him. (1 Peter 3:22)
--But when it came to Stephen he stood.
1. We shall see him as he is. This points to his visible and physical body when he returns.
2. We shall be like him. This truth is connected with the previous one. How shall we be like him? We shall be like him in the way that he returns, with a physical and visible body. If that is not the way that we will be like him, then you are taking it out of its context, for that is what the context is speaking of.
"He that has this hope in him purifies himself." The second coming; the actual visible and physical return of Christ, that Blessed hope of all believers, has been a purifying hope in the believers life.
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)
--The passage I cited (1John 3:2) does say that. That is its teaching. That is exactly what John set out to teach. How do you get anything else out of it.
You refer to the next five verses or so. I already referred to verse four.
If you note in the KJV, verse five has a paragraph marker, where John goes on and begins a different thought in the chapter.
In other words we now have a corruptible body that houses a temporary earthly body but someday we will have a resurrected body, but a body nevertheless. -
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you. We are begotten not yet born, just as you were begotten in your mother about nine months before your birth, unto a lively hope, read Rom. 8:24,25 by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
That is spoken of in Col. 1:18 as firstborn from the dead. Please do not tell me about David and firstborn, which was actually about Jesus, or any other concept about firstborn. Being followed by the phrase of the or from the dead it means just that. If it had firstborn of the color green and he was green what would you say. Born of the Spirit is speaking of resurrection.
Concerning OT/NT. At the end of Heb. 11 they without us shall not be made perfect, implies all together and is speaking of resurrection if you read back a few verses. Gal. 3:29 And if ye Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. The only promise anyone who has or will live has ever had was made to Abraham and his seed Christ. The only thing you will ever inherit was promised to Abraham and you will receive it at the very same time he dose. -
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
Verse 23 is the key we are waiting to be completed, we are Spiritually reborn as identified by the Holy Spirit in us and our human spirit working together. We are saved by hope, hope in what is not seen. We have not seen the risen Lord but we believe He rose and we have hope that we too will be raised, that is our bodily ressurection and the changing of the corruptable body to an incorruptable one.
Collosians 1:18 Christ is the head of the church, He is the first to have risen from the dead, in order that He be first or above all things pertaining to salvation, to the church and to everyone who has believed all in it's order Christ the Firstborn, the Preeminant one over all things.
Hebrews 11: 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect
They have not received the promise of the Kingdom of Israel being set up but I believe this is also speaking of their ressurection has not yet taken place, they have not yet been made complete. The also never saw their Saviour come they believed He would come and He did we didn't see Him come but we believe it and we have a better faith. Theirs is in the one who is coming ours is in the one who has already come. Without Him having come and we being part of the bride means that they would not be made perfect.
Galatians 3:29 the believers in Christ receive the inheritence of the Kingdom which is to come, we share in the Abrahamic family of Faith, it doesn't say we become or replace the Jews. We share in the inherietance of eternal life. -
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From Tom's response above but to everyone.
New birth is when someone has faith in Christ. If any man is in Christ he is a new creation.
The first man Adam became a living soul when the breath of life from God was breathed into what was made from the ground and he, the living soul Adam according to Romans 5:14 was the figure of him that was to come, meaning I assume the Word made flesh was made 100% like the first man Adam and he was 100% God. I have been trying to find these 100%'s in scripture and can't but because ya'll use them so will I.
This man Jesus the Christ the sinless one lived and then died for the sin of the world.
This man Jesus the Christ was buried.
This man Jesus the Christ God the Father raised from the dead. Gal.1:1 Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --YNG
This man Jesus the Christ is now on the right hand of God. Hebrews 10:12 And He, for sin one sacrifice having offered -- to the end, did sit down on the right hand of God, -
Did Jesus go into death as the last Adam it the image of the first Adam and was raised as the Second Adam a quickening Spirit the beginning the firstborn from the dead in whose image we shall be made?
Did God come as God to save man or did God come as man to save him?
This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. The first man (the word for Adam) of the earth, earthy: the second man (the word for Adam) the Lord from heaven.
A new man?
We are not going to be like the first Adam as created we are going to be like the angles unable to die and better than the first Adam when we put on the image of the second Adam which is immortality.
The new birth? -
Paul understood the promises to Abraham in this light, For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
When Jesus told the Jews that Abraham desired to see his day, what day was this? I believe it was this day. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, (the promise that in his seed Christ which would come through the only begotten Isaac who God told him to sacrifice) God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Accounting that God [was] able to raise [him] up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
In Isaac he saw Christ in the day he was raised and declared to be the Son of God. -
How do you define "born again" and do you see God as being a Holy trinity? -
I believe we are baptized by one Spirit into the church of God begotten of the Father by that Spirit of adoption making us sons and that we will be born again by that same Spirit through resurrection into the kingdom of God.
I believe the NT for sure shows Jesus the Christ as the Son of God, The Father as God and the Holy Spirit as God. I am not sure persons is the correct terminology but I think that is about the only term our minds can conceive of God. In the OT you also see evidence of a plurality of God yet him being one God. -
Oh, where to begin, dear Brother, where to begin.
Hebrew word for "spirit" in this verse: ruwach רוּחַ H7307
Thayer's definition:
1) wind, breath, mind, spirit
a) breath
b) wind
d) spirit (of the living, breathing being in man and animals)
1) as gift, preserved by God, God's spirit, departing at death, disembodied being
So this "spirit" being mentioned here has to be our soul, that upon death, it leaves the body and returns to God(the believer that is) who gave it, or will end up in hell(the unbeliever).
Hebrew word for soul in Gen.2:7: נֶפֶשׁ nephesh H5315
Thayer's definition:
a) that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
b) living being
c) living being (with life in the blood)
d) the man himself, self, person or individual
So, a soul can, and does, exist without the body. When we die the physical death, the soul leaves and goes either "up" or "down", considering the state the soul was in at the time of death, saint or sinner, I mean. The soul will go on by itself, until Jesus comes and raises the dead. The soul then reunites with the body, and if saved, go to heaven, and if a sinner, the lake of fire. And FTR, the soul NEVER dies, but it will go either "up" or "down", considering the state it is in upon death, being a saint or sinner.
I hope that none of this comes off as being offnesive, but I am convinced of this which I posted.....I guess so are you with your belief, too. Have a good week!!
i am I AM's!!
Willis -
asterisktom Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
But that is wrong. They had seen Christ disappear into a cloud and be hidden from the sight. It is only after that that they are told that message of verse 11, the verse that all too often is quoted all by its lonesome. To me it is very telling that futurists have no use for the cloud, and its hiding activity. At the very least, they should admit that this passage (passage, not single verse) is not straightforward evidence for the futurist view, since it admits of two legitimate interpretations -that is, just what is meant by "manner". Neither is it the best of evidences for Preterists.
"But he, being full of the Holy Spirit," - Acts 7:55
Compare with
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day," - Rev 1:10
I will repeat that, if Christ became permanently physical from the time of the incarnation then Christ, as God, is not immutable (unchangeable). Yet the Bible says God is unchangeable. Thus, if Christ permanently becomes this spiritual/physical entity He would then cease to be God. It is the same type of Christological error that the some make with Christ's Kenosis, "emptying", in Phil. 2.
No, verse 5 does not begin a different thought. It continues the thought.
This is all the time I have for this right now. I appreciate all the time you put into your responses, DHK, however much I may have disagreed with them. -
You seem to have a real big problem with the Biblical truth of the Incarnation...
God DID become Human Flesh, and walked among us...
He DID die as a sin bearer, for the sins of Humanity upon the Cross, paying sin debt in full. Propiation for whole World...
God DID become something BRAND NEW in that moment of time, as he chose to became Human, to have the dual natures of God/Human forever linked in person of Jesus, fully God/Fully man... still was/is God, But added FOREVER the Human nature to Himself, in body of Jesus Christ...
SAME Jesus now in Heavem forever God/Man, same body died in, now raised up in heavenly realm, restored fully to His glory as "only begotten of the Father"
You have denied HisSecond Coming in a lietrally physical sense...
Denied the physical bodily resurrection..
Are you now going to deny the fact of the Incarnation also?
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