Like a fly at the picnic table. :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
Romans 9 and Calvinism
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Sep 16, 2021.
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SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The context of Romans 5 clearly shows the “access” to this grace comes after salvation that gives believers peace with God.
peace to you -
MB -
MB -
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2; NASB20) -
The Bible tells us that we are saved by grace, not by works. We are not saved by faith. This seems to perhaps be your stumbling stone.
We are justified by faith, but not saved by faith. We are saved by grace. (Ephesians 2:1-10)
In Ephesians, Paul tells us that faith is not of ourselves, but is the gift of God, which, in Romans, sets us free from guilt of sin. In Hebrews 12, we see that this faith, given to us by God, is authored and completed by Jesus. Therefore, we have no cause to boast. Everything that we are, before the throne of God, is entirely because of Christ Jesus.
Hopefully, the lightbulb will turn on for you. I am not sure I can make it anymore simple than this for you. -
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Eph_2:8 for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you—of God the gift,
Rom_8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Faith is hope.
There is no grace from God with out the faith to receive it.
MB -
We disagree on Romans 5. No need to continue making the same statements over and over.
peace to you -
Reconciling Paul, Hebrews and James -
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I’m sure you think the comment in the other thread is important. If you want to comment, please feel free to do so. I’ll not chase down comments in other threads and try to figure out the connection you see. Thanks anyway.
peace to you -
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we also have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we celebrate in hope of the glory of God. (Romans 5:1-2; NASB20) -
Reformed1689 Well-Known Member
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Romans 5:1-6 demonstrates Calvinism is false...
We gained access by faith into this grace wherein we stand. Thus we were saved by grace "by reason of our faith being credited as righteousness by God, by which we gained access to God's saving grace!! -
Romans 4 directs our thoughts to understand Romans 5.
Would Abraham have believed had God not spoke to him and given Abraham the capacity to believe?
Romans 4:1-4,11-14,16-17,20-25
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about,but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.
He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void.
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 5:1-11
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained accessby faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Van, do you not read that "while we were still sinners Christ died for...US"? Do you not see that?
Do you not see that "while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God" by Jesus?
How is it that you imagine it is your personal faith that impresses God? -
Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
I've shown this to you before but you still insist on believing the lie that I saved my self..
MB -
"There is no grace from God with out the faith to receive it."
Whose faith is it? Who authored it? Who finishes it? -
May I suggest that salvation is offered to those who trust in the risen Christ not the self appointed members of an exclusive club. Some theological schools of thought have made the very simple quite complex.
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