Again, do you have any proof that Mitt has done this as governor of Massachusetts or that his father did so as governor of Michigan? Say proof that Mitt had to get permission from this LDS bigwig you keep mentioning before he could sign the Massachusetts health insurance reform bill?
Without you providing any proof, I think that your extrapolation of what Mormon public servants do in Utah to Mormon public servants thousands of miles away is flat out wrong.
Romney is Fast Rising as a Serious Contender
Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by KenH, Dec 13, 2006.
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Since you seem to be pushing him so hard on this board, I can only assume that you have no objection to Mormon theology or practice, and that you believe that Mormons teach salvation by grace through faith and their teachings convert people and lead them to heaven when they die. -
That is my personal opinion.
IF you believed that a prophet of God walked on this earth and you were POTUS, would you consult the prophet of God before making decitions?
I would -
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
The plural word "ambassadors" was used eight times in the Bible, seven times in the Old Testament, once in the New, in 2 Corinthians 5:20 from which you get your teaching that all believers are ambassadors for Christ (or do you mean all pastors).
This is erroneous teaching, if one contends that is what the Scripture teaches and what Paul was teaching.
Study the context of 2 Corinthians and find for yourself that Paul often speaks in terms of "you" and "us" about those in the church. The ambassadors for Christ are those who were chosen and separated for the ministry, first the apostles, personal designates of the Church Founder and Redeemer, and by extension, those on whom they lay their hands on.
The fact you state is no fact at all.
Secondly, Paul, from whose writing you take your quote, is the same Paul who told the Romans, obviously brethren living under a pagan governance, to "submit themselves" to authority. Not once in the Bible does it say that we are to endeavor to be represented in secular government only by those who name the Name of Christ as Lord and Savior.
Christians, those who belong to Christ, are nomads, wanderers, pilgrims, in a fallen, judged world, which will soon meet its Creator. We look for a better City, whose builder is God, who has sent His ambassadors, those who are His called ministers among His redeemed, to represent Him in dealing with His people, scattered in this fallen world.
Our God's Kingdom is not of this world.
As far as this world is concerned, we are to live peaceably with those around us, submit to civil government, obey the laws of the land, and glorify God in our midst.
Electing someone to public office has nothing to do with our salvation. -
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But that is what makes for a good debate. :) -
Some good info about Mitt's actions on illegal aliens:
www.familysecuritymatters.org:80/homeland.php?id=496632 -
God Bless! -
pinoybaptist
I am surprised at your conclusion that the teaching from Paul about being ambassadors for Christ should only be applied to the apostles or pastors. Paul said different times...
"Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me. "
"For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church. " (1Cr 4:16-17)
Peter said...
"For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: (1Pt 2:21)
As for "ambassadors" not being for us sheep I did some baptist research to make sure I was not taking things out of context because I am a strong proponent for keeping scripture in it's proper framework. Here is what I found from one commentary I own...
"The ministry of reconcilliation invovles calling upon men to demonstrate a changed life and so Paul considered himself, and all who are truly born again, to be ambassadors for Christ. Paul did not usurp authority to himself. His ministry at Corinth was representative."
This from Daniel R. Mitchell, Th.D; Former professer of Theology, Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary; Retired B.A., Washington Bible College; Th.M., Capital Bible Seminary; S.T.M., Dallas Theological Seminary; Th.D., Dallas Theological Seminary.
I must stick with my initial understanding that all Christians are called to be ambassadors for Christ.
God Bless! -
Romney's communications director, Eric Fehrnstrom, said last week that the governor should be "judged on his four-year record in office."
"In one of the most liberal states in the country, he has governed as a mainstream conservative," Fehrnstrom said. "He's gone after wasteful spending, he's defended traditional marriage, he pushed to bring abstinence education to the classroom, he fought against embryonic cloning, and he stood up and vetoed the emergency contraception bill. Through it all, he has taken on the entrenched Democratic political establishment, which has opposed him at every turn."
- http://tinyurl.com/y2t62s -
pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
Steaver:
To answer your post will be tantamount to hijacking this thread which I have no intention of doing out of respect for all who are posting in this thread including yourself.
So I will simply start another thread in an appropriate forum and let us discuss your contention that all Christians, whoever these Christians are, were called to be ambassadors of Christ.
I will probably be alone in that corner.
However, today is my last day of the workweek, and tomorrow my weekend begins.
Till then.
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I admire the way Romney has conducted himself as governor of Mass., from what I know of it. However, the position that he is taking now pubicly on abortion and gay rights appears to be quite different from the position he took several years ago when he ran against Ted Kennedy for Senator from Mass. It seems that his core beliefs are mushy and subject to change based upon the political pressure he faces. I don't think he is a dream candidate for conservatives but we may have to take what we can get.
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pinoybaptist Active MemberSite Supporter
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It would seem that there is some consulting going on.
STORY LINK
Now, whether he did it as Governor or not, and with all decisions or not, I don't know. But to me, as a Christian, I can't and won't vote for him.
Jamie -
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Hi KenH,
I am keeping an open mind about Romney. His current positions as stated make him the best candidate among the Republicans on the issues. Campaigns are long and they tend, at some point, to catch a candidate in an unguarded moment so that we see their true character (think George Allen here). Reagan showed himself to be a man of principle. I hope Romney proves to be the same, but I think the does have something to prove at this point. -
Romney will not get my vote. Period.
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Jamie
Isn't America Great!
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