you didnt answer my question on how angels being spiritual can come down and have relation with woman to bear children--if that really happened Peter and Jude talked about its apart of the discussion :)
Satan and 1/3 od angels falling from heaven ?
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by HisWitness, Jan 14, 2013.
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you cant force some fallen angel into texts when its talking about a king(man) in context :) -
Each one of them were addressed to a specific person in their respective historical context. For example Isaiah lived 700 B.C. However, that doesn't rule out (in 7:14) that the "sign" would be Mary giving birth to Christ. In some way it was also relevant to the king at that time. Most prophecies have a near fulfillment and far-reaching fulfillment. Isaiah 7:14 is a good example of that.
This was directed to Tyrus:
Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus
Ezekiel 28:3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
Consider:
Tyrus was not wiser than Daniel.
Secrets could be hid from Tyrus.
Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Consider also:
Tyrus was not full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
Most important of all, he was not in Eden, the garden of God.
Every precious stone was not his covering.
Musical instruments were not his workmanship.
He was not the anointed cherub
He was not on the holy mountain of God.
He was not perfect in his ways from the day he was created. In fact Tyrus was not created, he was "procreated," or begotten--born. It is not a creation, per se. Creation ceased after the sixth day.
Soon after his creation sin was found in him. Tyrus was born with sin/sin nature.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Again consider:
Tyrus was not cast out of the mountain of God, and never called a "covering cherub."
This one was lifted up in pride because of his beauty and brightness or glory, and therefore cast out; cast to the ground--not Tyrus.
Note he was cast to the ashes upon the earth--an allusion to the curse that was put on the serpent. -
verse 2--Son of man,say,unto the prince of Tyrus,Thus saith the Lord God,Because thine heart is lifted up,and thou hast said,I am a God,I sit in the seat of God,in the midst of the seas,YET THOU ART A MAN,and not god,though thou set thine heart as the heart of God.
Clearly that verse states that the king of tyrus is a MAN-- all the things about him and what was to happen was symbolic language.
read about the king of babylon(Neby) same sort of text dealing with a different king--he was even called Lucifer--he was a MAN also with alot of symbolic language spoken to him'
Its very clear that these are MEN here--scripture says so :) -
Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him,
Ezekiel is commanded to take up a lamentation against the king of Tyrus. Tyrus was indeed a man. But the lamentation was a description of Lucifer. I explained to you in a previous post how prophesies work: near fulfilling and far-reaching. Read my last post again. The prophecy describes Lucifer and not Tyrus. It says things that could never fit an earthly king, and could only fit an angelic being that fell. We must take Scripture for what it says, not for what we want it to stay. -
Your reading something into all that thats not there--he was telling of the city's beauty and the king of the city's beauty and speaking of the judgements to come against them -
Thou hast been in the garden of Eden.
These are specific statements that when combined together can only refer to one person and one person only that is in the Bible. The only angel that was anointed in some way (made special), was both in heaven and in the garden of Eden, was Satan or Lucifer. He is the only person that fits this description. He rebelled against God and drew one third of the angels with him. -
the context of the scripture ONLY deals with MAN--if it meant an angel dont you think he would said an angel instead of a MAN--your still reading something into the scripture to try and hold on the tradition of a sinning fallen angel and its clearly not there :)
Some of the statements was describing the location of the city of tyrus--and the glory that it had and the king had that God had given them.
And then the judgements that were comming upon them.
Thats the context and meaning of the text--Beside an Angel sinning had NOTHING to do with the king and the city--so my last staement on this is dealing with Kings(Men) and their Cities:) -
Also on another note Paul told the Roman Saints that God wouldBruise Satan under their feet SHORTLY--Romans 16-20.
So if we disagree who Satan might be well have to admit according to scripture he has been taken care of already.
You cant deny that Satan was to be Bruised under the feet of the Roman Saints--that had to take place in their lifetime for it to be under their feet.
So around about AD 70 when the city and temple were destroyed and all things were fullfilled is when that was fulfilled.
We can say whoever Satan was he is NO MORE !!! -
All you have in your defense is that Ezekiel is speaking to Tyrus. If that were to be the characteristic of prophecies, then prophetic literature would be useless. Many times prophecies are directed toward men but speak of others. That is the nature of prophecy.
He lived in earthly place, not in heaven, nor in the Garden of Eden.
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Nope just got enlightened on what the scripture really teaches friend :)
I use to hold on to them traditions like you,but its hard to hold any longer to them when God opens your eyes :)
Your gonna tell me next that Paul really lied to the Romans and Satan was not really to be bruised under their feet i suppose ? -
Look at Rev.10:20. Satan will ultimately cast into the Lake of fire, where also will be the beast and the false prophet. He is not there yet, but will be. He still remains the god of this world. That is why you are so confused.
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Matthew 16-28:Verily i say unto you(Disciples)There be some standing here,which shall not taste of death,till they see the son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 26-64: Jesus saith unto him(Caiaphas)THOU hast said:nevertheless I say unto YOU,Hereafter shall YE see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power,and COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN.
over and over again--when YE(Disciples) shall see these things,when YE(Disciples) shall hear of these things,They shall kill YOU(Disciples)
Those things were spoke to the Disciples of his day--Those things were to happen unto that generation--Jesus said so!!!
But i know you will find a way to Murder the scriptures and twist them around to hold to your tradition :) -
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This guy is just yanking people around. It is best to ignore him. If you recall we have had 2 or 3 on the Board the last few months who have pulled the same stunt. They took the "name it and claim it" view rather than the adversarial view. -
Im not the only one who has been enlightened on this subject and im not saying 100% of what im saying is complety right--There is NO man on this earth that is 100% correct in all his teachings :)
But we can move closer to him who has enlightened us and will keep doing so!!!
Just because i may not see what you are saying and you may not see what im saying--lets try and come to an understanding together instead of bashing one another and so forth :)
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