By changing the subject you are aiding the Catholic advocates as they want the subject to change.
Notice they could not respond.
Now you are helping them by changing the subject.
It is oxymoronic to claim that "ONE BODY" is inclusive a church which by nature must INCLUDE what Christ explicitly commands His churches to EXLUDE.
They cannot possibly be "ONE BODY" in kind or in number or in nature.
"[COLOR="PaleTurquoise"]A second core Baptist conviction has to do with the local church. While affirming the universal Church of Christ, Baptists believe that each local church is competent under Christ to shape is own life and ministry[/COLOR]. Therefore, Baptists believe the affairs of each local church are in the hands of that congregation, allowing no outside ecclesiastical interference, civil intervention, or clergy domination. Most Baptist churches practice two ordinances, baptism and the Lord's Supper, and these are interpreted usually as symbols rather than sacraments. "
From ApologeticsIndex
perhaps its due to the difference between say how an IBF Baptist and a SBc views it then?
Our church belongs to NEITHER!
You are doing the same thing as the Catholics. You are asserting TRADITIONS over the Word of God.
Deal with the evidence I presented rather than do what Catholics do - quote their creeds and catechisms.
In these threads on these kinds of subjects, I agree totally with the Baptists and not with the Catholics. But I wonder why I like the Catholics better. Hmmm.... maybe it has something to do with fruit.
You are such an absolute white washed hypocrit as I have read many of your posts ranting and raving and calling others "liars" "the accusers" and the like sort of names.
Practice what you preach or shut up!
There is a difference of opinion to be sure. I chalk it up to lack of education in the field of ecclesiology. It is one area that we had a good foundation in.
There is no such thing as a universal church, by the very definition of the Greek word, which means "assembly." An assembly cannot be unassembled. I don't know how you can reconcile that in your mind.
Where does this mythical universal assembly actually assemble?
Who are the deacons?
Who takes up the offering?
Who preaches?
At what times are the services (and in what time zone)?
Where is the church building that is big enough to seat all the believers of the world that are able to assemble in one place at one time together? Isn't that a bit mind-boggling for you? Can't you admit that it just doesn't take place; it doesn't happen. There is no such thing.
There may be such a thing in the future after the resurrection when we all get to heaven. There all the saints will assemble in heaven, but not until then. The universal church contradicts the very definition of "church" or ekklesia which means "assembly." Look in Youngs' literal translation. Wherever "church" occurs in other translations, it is translated "assembly" as it ought to be.
There are other words for the so-called universal church.
The kingdom, the bride of Christ, the family of God, to name a few. Why do you insist on using unbiblical terminology such as the universal church, when you have other biblical terms to choose from?
And your post proves exactly the truth of what I wrote, you liar and accuser!
Yes, I have responded in kind when initially attacked, just as I am doing now. There is a difference in responses to attacks and initiating attacks. When I am called the vile things that I have been called here without provocation, you'd better believe I'll defend myself!
So, YOU stop attacking and shut your stinking mouth! Your fruit is as rotten as it gets! I'll take the Catholics on here any day over you and your ilk.
You think you know so much, even to the pint of infallibly interpreting scripture! You'd better read what 1 Cor. 13 says about people like you, assuming you can interpret that infallibly!
trinity is seen as describing a valid biblcal doctrine of the personhood of God, even though exact term not used in the Bible...
same way, the concept of the doctrine of the Universal Church in the bible, have used terms also Bride/Body of Christ, just that UNiversal church is recognized and used as a valid expression of the concept!
The trinity describes a concept that can be backed up by Scripture.
The universal church is contradicted by scripture.
A universal assembly makes no sense. It is a contradiction in its very terminology. It can't be universal and an assembly at the same time.
Apparently he thinks the omnipresent Christ is the church rather than the "head" of the church?
The Greek term "ekklesia" has never been used among ancient Greeks or any other people on earth to mean a "called out people" but was used by the Greeks who called out those qualified citizens to publicly assemble.
Likewise, God calls out of His kingdom the citizens of His kingdom which have already been born again baptized believers to publicly assembly for worship.
Just trying to show that its possible that the Church can be in heaven with the Lord, and those saints alive are here, and they attend local churches,
sum total of all saved persons in local groups/churches/denomination IS the Universal church...
There indeed is a universal church in heaven, for all believers will be assembled there. But those saints are not assembled here. Will you admit that the apostles are believers. Do you commune with them, sit under their preaching? What about the ones they taught, and all the members of the churches--about 100 of the churches that Paul started? Do they assemble with you here on this earth? Where are they? Have you met them, shook their hands? Greeted them? Where do you meet with them and assemble with them, and fellowship with them on this earth as you persist in saying???
If you keep saying this then I can only conclude that you practice some form of necromancy.
You can't show that by using the person of Christ as he is omnipresent but the saints of God are not!
The term "ekklesia" BY USAGE always refers to an assembly of body of persons.
The terms "universal" and "invisible" are antonyms not synonyms with ekklesia.
A Universal Invisible ekklesia is like say white is black and hot is cold.
These terms cannot be found in scripture as DESCRIPTIVES of the church
Every single metaphor for the church represents it as local and visible NOT ONE provides reprsentation as either universal and invisible.
Jesus useds the term ekklesia 23 times and you would
have us believe that the first use referred to one kind of church but the next 22 uses referred to a church he never claimed to build.
Your doctrine is Roman Catholic Church originated - church salvation.
Those who invented your doctrine were excommunicated Roman Catholic Priests in order to escape excommunication out of what they recognized as the "true" universal visible church.
Your doctrine has no history before the Reformation. The earliest council called to discuss the nature of the church consisted of over 800 elders across the world and NOT ONE asserted any belief in an INVISIBLE church and NOT ONE other than Augustine asserted any belief in a UNIVERSAL visible church and he based it upon a false interpretation of the parable of the tares where Christ identified the field were the seed was sown to be "the world" NOT THE CHURCH.
except that there ARE indeed a solid group of baptists that do indeed affirm and adhere to the Biblical notion of there being a Universal and local church!
The bible teaches that all chrsitians are placed by the Lord spiritually in His body/bride,, the Church of christ, and that there are also those who attend and membership in local churches....
Do yopu see christians as in the Body who do NOT attend local assemblies?
that they can be mebers of the Body and not even a member in a local church, or else in a Denomination instead?
The majority isn't always right, but the Bible is.
The majority of Christendom is made up of the RCC, but that doesn't make them right.
The majority of the people of the world (largest religion and largest growing religion) is Islam, but that doesn't make it the right religion. Or, do you believe that it is, just because it has the most numbers?