Schuller Daughter Now Co-Leader of Crystal Cathedral

[Jerome]

http://www.crystalcathedral.org/hour_of_power/videos/news_transcript_06072009.php

"[God] is calling my daughter Sheila to be my co-leader. . . . Sheila will be standing next to me and lead this ministry in a more strategic and unified church. You will see her on this platform every week and you will know that she is the strong leader that will keep this church going stronger than ever in the years to come."

 

[annsni]

*shocked silence*

Wow

 

[Mexdeaf]

No surprise there.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Wasn't that what he said a few years ago about his son? :tonofbricks:

 

[Salty]

Wasn't that what he said a few years ago about his son? :tonofbricks:

His son left on not-the-best-of-terms and has started a new church

 

[EdSutton]

What a bunch of rot!

I can smell this all the way to KY! :tear:

I would say something stronger, but it would (or should!) get [Snipped!] by the Moderators. :tear:

Ed

 

[sag38]

Honestly, it doesn't shock me. The truth was long ago abandoned at the Cathedral. Actually, I don't think it was ever there.

 

[Marcia]

Honestly, it doesn't shock me. The truth was long ago abandoned at the Cathedral. Actually, I don't think it was ever there.

I agree. Schuller is closer to New Thought than to Christianity.

 

[Johnv]

His son left on not-the-best-of-terms and has started a new church

That's incorrect. The younger schuller did not go off and start a new church, and has no plans to. Also, he didn't leave on his own accord. He was removed from the Hour of Power program by his brothers-in-law, believing that he was to blame for the downturn in income (which just aint so, given that all televition ministries have been suffering). The younger schuller eventually resigned as senior pastor. The way that RA Schuller was treated was very poor, and the Hour of Power ended up shooting itself in the foot.

All that said, RA Schuller's messages have always been Gospel rich and Christ-cenered. His sister's messages have likewise been so. I don't approve of how she came into her role, but I wish her the best of luck.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I wish her the best of luck

Ironic ... Given their theology, "luck" is about the best they can hope for.

 

[Johnv]

Ironic ... Given their theology, "luck" is about the best they can hope for.

Wow, talk about an ignorant and unrighteous comment.

 

[Joseph M. Smith]

I am truly weary of people claiming that "God has said" or "God has planned" or whatever. While in my life I have been able to sense God's call and to respond to it, I am very reluctant to proclaim that for someone else. And especially if it means that person's being touted as THE leader or THE voice of some group. I need to see some handwriting on the wall first!

Oops, bad choice of scripture, I suppose!

 

[Revmitchell]

Schuller resigned last month and plans to start his own ministry, according to a news release on the Crystal Cathedral's Web site.

"It is expected that Robert will make an announcement soon regarding plans for his new ministry," the cathedral said. "The leadership and congregation wishes him all the best as his plans unfold."

In a heralded announcement nearly three years ago, he named his son to succeed him as senior pastor. But he removed him from the "Hour of Power" broadcasts in October after the church said the younger Schuller refused his father's requests to rotate the show's preaching duties with other ministers.

The church said "lack of shared vision" led to the split between the younger Schuller and his 82-year-old father.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=6460550



Most likely the Father wanted more of his positive thinking gurus to come in and share what has nothing to do with the gospel.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Wow, talk about an ignorant and unrighteous comment.

Why are you so judgmental? Talk about an ignorant and unrighteous comment. You need to cease your judgmentalism.

Furthermore, you should explain how my comment is either ignorant or unrighteous. Are you familiar at all with Schuller? Schuller denies biblical authority, the necessity of the atonement, the exclusivity of Jesus Christ, and the sovereignty of God, and much more? What's left but luck?

 

[Johnv]

Why are you so judgmental? Talk about an ignorant and unrighteous comment. You need to cease your judgmentalism.

Speck, plank.

I've had occaision to hear Shiela Coleman speak at local Christian Education events, and can tell you with sufficient authority that her theology is scripturally consistent, as well, as consistent with Reformed Theology. I called out your judgementalism because you made a comment without any knowlege of her theology.

Are you familiar at all with Schuller? Schuller denies biblical authority, the necessity of the atonement, the exclusivity of Jesus Christ, and the sovereignty of God, and much more? What's left but luck?

I wasn't referring to RH Schuller in the slightest. In regards to RA Schuller, and Shiela Schuller Coleman, there's nothing to suggest that their theology fits your discription. If it's a matter of "like father like child" there's sufficient reason to deny that.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Speck, plank.

ACtually, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You don't want me to judge them, but you have no problem judging me. I actually don't have a problem with you judging me, but it is inconsistent with your own actions.

I've had occaision to hear Shiela Coleman speak at local Christian Education events, and can tell you with sufficient authority that her theology is scripturally consistent, as well, as consistent with Reformed Theology. I called out your judgementalism because you made a comment without any knowlege of her theology.

First, how do you know I don't know anything about her theology? Are you omniscient? That's the only way you would know what I know.

Second, I didn't say anything about her theology. I talked about what "they" believe, which clearly meant the church, led by Schuller. If you know anything about Schuller, you know he was an unbeliever and a false teacher, and you know that one of the reasons he did not turn the ministry over to his son was over differences about where the ministry was headed. The son was more orthodox than his father (but probably not by much). You know that Schuller wasn't going to turn the church over to someone who was solidly evangelical.

I wasn't referring to RH Schuller in the slightest.

I was.

 

[Revmitchell]

Speck, plank.

I've had occaision to hear Shiela Coleman speak at local Christian Education events, and can tell you with sufficient authority that her theology is scripturally consistent, as well, as consistent with Reformed Theology. I called out your judgementalism because you made a comment without any knowlege of her theology.

Pl said "their theology" and given the ties between the two involved in the same ministry and Daddy's approval it is quite reasonable to see her theology as being one and the same as her Daddy who is quite heretical. So your assertion that PL knows nothing of her theology is flawed.

I wasn't referring to RH Schuller in the slightest. In regards to RA Schuller, and Shiela Schuller Coleman, there's nothing to suggest that their theology fits your discription. If it's a matter of "like father like child" there's sufficient reason to deny that.

So say you with no source. Let me help you out:

"The core of original sin, then is LOT--Lack of Trust. Or, it could be considered an innate inability to adequately value ourselves. Label it a `negative self-image,' but do not say that the central core of the human soul is wickedness. ... positive Christianity does not hold to human depravity, but to human inability. I am humanly unable to correct my negative self-image until I encounter a life-changing experience with non- judgmental love bestowed upon me by a Person whom I admire so much that to be unconditionally accepted by him is to be born again" (Self-Esteem p. 67).

"Classical theology defines sin as `rebellion against God.' The answer is not incorrect as much as it is shallow and insulting to the human being. Every person deserves to be treated with dignity even if he or she is a `rebellious sinner'" (ibid. p. 65).

"To be born again means that we must be changed from a negative to a positive self-image--from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust" (ibid. p. 68).

"What do I mean by sin? Answer: Any human condition or act that robs God of glory by stripping one of his children of their right to divine dignity. ... I can offer still another answer: `Sin is any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem'" (ibid p. 14).

 

[Johnv]

So say you with no source. Let me help you out:

Oh no, not the old quote lifting from the book "Self Esteem: The New Reformation". Ya know, I finally got myself a coy of that book. That book is some 25 years old, first of all, and after reading it, I discovered that those quotes are, for the most part, taken out of context. That said, I dont' think the book was a particularly interesting read. Might have been in the 80's, though.

Actually, I was pointing out your hypocrisy. You don't want me to judge them, but you have no problem judging me. I actually don't have a problem with you judging me, but it is inconsistent with your own actions.

Then I judge you correctly, because you judged them incorrectly.

First, how do you know I don't know anything about her theology?

If you did, you'd be concurring that her theology is not inconsistent with scripture (likewise with RA Schuller's). BTW, just for the record, I'm not a fan of RH Schuller.

Second, I didn't say anything about her theology. I talked about what "they" believe, which clearly meant the church, led by Schuller.

You'd be wrong there as well. The Crystal Cathedral church (not the Hour of Power) is quite Christ-centered, and their positions on faith are consistently in line with Reformed Theology.

If you know anything about Schuller, you know he was an unbeliever and a false teacher, and you know that one of the reasons he did not turn the ministry over to his son was over differences about where the ministry was headed.

Actually, he DID turn the ministry over to his son, and his son was indeed solidly evangelical. His son was senior pastor for two years. His son was removed by his inlaws, because he was conent to let the Hour of Power die, and find other avenues of spreading the messages, such as via the internet, video streaming, podcasting, etc. His brothers in law, however, would have lost their secure positions with the Hour of Power, had this happened, so they voted to remove him from the Hour of Power. He resigned his senior pastor position several months later.

And on the topic of RH Schuller being an unbeliever, that's a bit out there. You bet, I've got issues with some theological aspects of his, but to say he was an unbeliever is quite extreme. I've heard him on numerous occaisions to tell people to turn from their sins and give their lives to Christ.

Like I said, I'm not a fan of RH Schuller theologically, but his children are not of the same theological tree.

I suppose next, you'll tell me he was a freemason.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Then I judge you correctly, because you judged them incorrectly.

That's certainly not clear at all.

If you did, you'd be concurring that her theology is not inconsistent with scripture (likewise with RA Schuller's).

I think her theology is inconsistent with Scripture, as well as her practice.

BTW, just for the record, I'm not a fan of RH Schuller.

So?

You'd be wrong there as well. The Crystal Cathedral church (not the Hour of Power) is quite Christ-centered, and their positions on faith are consistently in line with Reformed Theology.

No it's not. RH Schuller was a heretic and an unbeliever of the first order.

Actually, he DID turn the ministry over to his son, and his son was indeed solidly evangelical.

Yes, and he took it back.

And on the topic of RH Schuller being an unbeliever, that's a bit out there. You bet, I've got issues with some theological aspects of his, but to say he was an unbeliever is quite extreme. I've heard him on numerous occaisions to tell people to turn from their sins and give their lives to Christ.

I think scripturally, given what Schuller taught, it is quite clear that he was an unbeliever.

I suppose next, you'll tell me he was a freemason.

No because I don't know. I limit my comments only to stuff that I am familiar with.

 

[Johnv]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the topic.