If you can't define what world Christ died for, how do you know that you are one of the elect? Please explain.
If salvation is all of God, inasmuch as God even has to give the faith to the one believing, then how do you know God gave you faith to believe? Or was it your own faith all along? Please explain.
Explain,
How when the Scriptures say: "Being justified by faith we have peace with God," you say that faith isn't our faith but God's faith simply because "salvation is all of God."
And give a good Biblical answer how you can know for sure that you are one of the elect.
Scriptures Calvinists must deal with, continued...
Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alive in Christ, Apr 22, 2011.
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My system just so happens to use the same terminology as the scriptures though. So, point for me.
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What I see from their
What I see from their post is, they want to get anybody to believe they were chosen before the foundation of the world. They didn't do anything so they can't receive any praise, God just choose them. Then once you believe all this, then you can learn about Christ and why you are chosen.
That is why he starts talking about you are better than everyone else that you can be saved and billions die and suffer in hell.
So no matter what you say about what you did for Christ when ask to trust in Him, to poor out your testimony how God changed your life through Jesus Christ you are caught up in his catch 22. -
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Had a whole reply I lost on my phone and will not allow me to edit all of those commas. Will respond after the weekend...not ducking and covering...busy.
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Luke, being a smart alek is one thing, but name calling and personal insults is even worse. Both are unnecessary, and I know I can tend to drift toward the mud too when provoked, but we must fight against this tendency. Two wrongs don't make it right and each of you are only responsible for how you respond to your brother in Christ. (dang, now I sound like I'm talking to my kids...sorry, but it applies here too, I really am not trying to talk down to you, because I fail too)
1 John 3:14
We know that we have left our old dead condition and entered into new life. We know it because we love one another. Those who do not are still living in their old condition.
I beg you both to consider the blatantly clear scriptures on these matters as you debate the less clear scriptures on other matters. Thanks -
Skan, I'll have to both agree and disagree. I think it is important that the casual reader who may not know Christ and visits here to see a pastor with the attitude Luke has called out and admonished...we are commanded to do this, actually. When he is spewing his venom and vitriol (not to mention physical threats, self described abrasiveness, demeaning of those with lesser formal education and outright unbecoming traits of the officer of elder / bishop / pastor)on thread after thread, as a brother he needs to be called out on it.
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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I suspect that Luke and others would react differently if not acting through the medium of an online forum. He is probably and pretty reasonable guy in person. Sometimes the anonymity of an online forum leads us to say things we wouldn't otherwise. While I agree that we should confront sin in love we probably should do that through PMs since that is the rules of the board... Just my two cents. I'm no authority or anything, I need reminders too...I just happen to know many read these forums when they google certain questions and the way were treat each other is a reflection of what we claim to believe. -
We can disagree without being disagreeable. But most choose not to. You're right. I think the keyboard gives some a tad more testosterone than they'd have if face to face.
I close with this: I don't care how theologically bent you are - when you contend in the flesh, you're sinning, regardless of how "right" you are.
And we all need grace here from time to time, don't we? -
So Christ is doing everything we are the messenger, but we know the messenger is nothing it is the one who sent the messenger and gave the message that is to be praised and glorified.
God loved the world is all I needed to begin my walk, the words of life, before I even knew the one who gave it.
The hardest thing was for me to accept is that only those who heard the words of Life and believed will be saved and the rest will be condemned. To trust in Jesus isn't work and it credits to us righteousness. None of this makes me different than anyone else all men have the same hope as me and God made us His messengers -
Also, Tom, if you read my previous posts you will see that I clearly owned up to my own tendency to stoop to harsh retorts and the need to be reminded of these things, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to bring this rebuke to my comments??? Maybe, I'm misreading your intent?
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Would to God that others on this thread had your demeanor. -
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
"It is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God--NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast."
We agree correct? -
Abraham Justified by Faith
1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[Psalm 32:1,2]
We boast in the work of Christ, because we can't boast in our work when it isn't. -
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Since
The cost of our sin is death, so you can't do anything to pay your debt. You have to trust in the work of Jesus and His word. We are saved by grace and it is of Jesus, our Lord, our God and our Saviour. -
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I am thrilled to hear you agree that the better ones go to heaven in your system.
I have never been able to get these nameless theology guys to admit that.
Those who are wise enough and decent enough to humble themselves go to heaven.
Those who are not as wise and not as decent go to hell.
Thank you for finally admitting this.
Anthropomorphic language for example.
BTW, I do believe that we humble ourselves. We do so because God ordained it, enabled it and brought it to pass.
Yes it is. Thanks for making it clear. :thumbsup:
I am a Calvinist and I wrote about it in the last post.
But it is dumb to ask somebody to spend hours scouring through literature to find a quote for you.
You're better than that.
But I am 100% for boasting that we know the Lord. 100% for it.
But the question is WHY? Why do we know the Lord and others do not?
What about those who "accept" this is different from those who do not?
In your system it is simply that they are BETTER. They are wiser and more humble.
You, in your system are going to heaven simply because for whatever reason you are a better man than the billions who are damned.
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