EG,
I think we need to remind them that what matters is what Squire has posted---faithfulness. God takes care of the increase.
To try to secure what is God's prerogative will lead to undue stress and burnout or it will lead to manipulation in order to gain results. Consequently, one will either burn out or sell out.
Bill
Seminary training and opportunity to minister
Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges & Seminaries' started by El_Guero, Sep 29, 2005.
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Brothers
I just know that I am stunned by the attrition rate of men in the ministry. If I had to go into combat knowing that 95% of my troops would not make it out, there would be a night of prayer before the battle ... -
The ministry is just plain old not easy. We know that it is a "spiritual" battle. Sometimes the smaller the flock, the harder the battle!
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Squire Robertsson AdministratorAdministrator
The problem is to continue with my Bubba story:
Mankind being mankind takes a look at Bubba (B.A, M.Div. from Christ the King BBC and Graduate School, with honors and fully revrendized. Btb, CtK is a fully accredited school) faithfully spreading spiritual fertilizer as God has called him. They don't see any increase; they just smell the stink. So, Bubba gets written off as "another failure in the ministry."
Now, y'all remember Bubba is fictional and so is CtK BBC&GS. :D -
I was surprised that 10% of the respondents did not place God's effectual call to ministry in their top 3 choices.
The weight of the survey (not scientific) feels like marriage is almost as important as calling. -
Among Baptists, the perception of a call to the ministry was extremely important, especially into the 20th century. The call was identified as an inward, or subjective, call, which the candidate identified as seeing God work in his life and desires, and an outward, or objective call, which the congregation would perceive in watching the life of the candidate.
A license to the ministry was given for usually a year during which the congregation could examine closely the life of the candidate. Afterwards, a presbytery or ordination counsel would carefully examine the candidate's understanding of Scripture. It was quite intensive.
Examinations for ordination now are typically weak affairs, to say the least. Unfortunately, because of our crass individualism, we've relegated the outward call to almost a perfuntory approval of anyone who claims to be called to the ministry. I have never heard of anyone's being denied ordination who sought it.
Perhaps therein lies part of the problem. Have churches ordained men into the ministry which our Baptist forefathers would have denied? Can we not expect them to leave when their own expectations are not met?
Bill -
Yes, I think you may have hit upon part of the problem.
We are definitely not in accordance with the old ordination boards ...
You should have seen the eyes of the young man when I asked him, "Why are you Baptist instead of just a Christian?" Whew! Thank the Lord that the translator saw the look in his eyes and the importance of the question ... I did ask in Spanish, but the man's reply had little to do with 'Baptist' ... -
The problem is that many seminaries are teaching ministers to,and many churches want to, give the people what they want, instead of what God has commanded us to give them. They want to be entertained, marketted to and a warm fuzzy feeling. God said to give them preaching from His word. Let the Holy Spirit do the drawing and convicting or comforting etc...
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With a 5% survivability rating for the profession, we need God driven men and women. (I believe in a Pastor's wife being called beside him - ALMOST always. The other option is that she is called to him.)
Reality check: 95% of the men trained in seminary to go into the ministry quit the ministry.
What can we do to fix this issue? -
I think you may be asking the wrong question. Perhaps we should be asking how do we get those who desire (or aspire), as in 1 Tim. 3:1, to actually start taking steps to enter the ministry instead of waiting to experience some type of unbiblical subjective internal "calling" that never comes?
I don't want to derail the main thrust of this thread and drive it off topic. I started a thread in the Baptist Theology and Bible Study Forum entitled "God's Effectual Call?" where we can continue this discussion. -
If God has not given you an effectual call ... then why has He not called you?
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We always have time for what we want to do and consider important.
Sometime read http://www.bibleteacher.org/Dm118_8.htm
and then ask yourself how many leaders in churches today are sharing their faith and discipling others. The church is about Christ not about a social club and having everything just right so people will come. It is not about imitating Las Vegas but about imitating Christ. -
However, this really should be discussed in the "God's Effectual Call?" thread that I started in the Baptist Theology and Bible Study Debate Forum.
[ October 07, 2005, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ] -
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Strange? How so? I simply noted that 1 Tim. 3:1 indicates that there are men who aspire (or desire) to serve in the office of overseer. Then I acknowledged the fact that our churches are full of men with that same desire, yet they never take any steps toward preparing themselves for that office because they are waiting around for a "call" that never comes based on a misguided understanding of what the Word actually has to say about those who serve in ministry.
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I have seen many whom I have disipled who begin to do ministry and lead others to Christ and disciple them while at the same time there are those studying in seminary who have never even shared their faith.
Just because some men are dreamers does not get the work done. A pastor should never be a dreamer but one who is a proven man. He proves himself by the disciples he makes.
A young boy may aspire to be a pastor but that does not mean he is ready. He is ready when he has proven himslef by the disciples he has made. Until that time he is preparing for the task of pastoring by making disciples. If a person cannot lead one or a few more then why give him a church?
By the time I graduated from college I had a team I had prayed for and built of about 65 men. We met in small groups once a week led by men I was leading. All of us were learning and growing.
I believe we have men waiting because we have men who will not or don't know how to lead other men.
It is a fact that strong leaders were once led by other strong leaders.
When a man tells me about who he admires he tells me everything about his passion and leadership. -
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