Has anyone watched the Bible study called Shepherd's Chapel from Gravette, AR? Here in West Kentucky it is on an Independent station. What puzzles me is the pastor (Arnold Murray) will be giving a verse by verse study that makes sense, then, all of the sudden, come up with some off the wall theory like humans being created before Adam and Eve, or destruction of the human soul for the lost. Does anyone know what denomination this is, or if anything about this guy is sound doctrine?
Shepherd's Chapel from Gravette, AR
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by saturneptune, Apr 18, 2010.
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
Hey, brother! All I can tell you is to flee from Shepherd's Chapel. Here are just a few of Arnold Murray's beliefs and teachings that cannot be reconciled with what the Bible teaches.
- One of his false teachings is about the "Kenites" being descendants of Cain and carrying the Mark of the Beast.
He believes that these people survived the Flood.
His whole assertion of this false teaching is based on the fact that he believes that Cain's father is Satan. Murray believes and teaches the "Serpent Seed" false doctrine. He asserts that Eve has sex with Satan in the garden and that their offspring was Cain. Because this is a lie, the entire Kenite discussion is moot because it cannot be true because Cain's father was not Satan, but Adam. This lie is exposed in Genesis 4:1 - "Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.” - Another false teaching of his is this one: "Murray teaches the heresy known as modalism, that God is one person who takes three forms: the Father who became the Son who became the Holy Spirit."
http://www.carm.org/what-shepherds-chapel
Here is a list of Arnold Murray's unorthodox teachings.
- One of his false teachings is about the "Kenites" being descendants of Cain and carrying the Mark of the Beast.
He believes that these people survived the Flood.
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It has already been addressed as to it's doctrinal errors but I will restate an obivous .. it is a bona-fide CULT. :)
It is one of the larger growing cults presently, and even up here is SD he has many followers.
He also teaches that churches (instititional local bodies) are anti-scriptural. His group meets once a year for a picnic and has cose to a thousand if not more come from all over to shake the hand of this 'g'od sent man. -
I used to watch him in the late 80's through the early 90's off n' on. I knew he was off. the deep end. I got a kick when he would rebuke his viewers with statements like: "I'm gonna' hit ya' over the head with a 2 by 4 if you don't listen to what I'm sayin'.
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I used to listen to Arnold Murray occasionally, not too often any more. He is certainly a bit off the wall at times and I can only take so much, but I get a kick out of him sometimes, especially how he addresses the "any moment fly away rapture" ...haha...and he does have some very frank and good points to consider about the dangers in that teaching. It's no wonder he has so makes so many "friends".
I think he gets a bum rap from many because he is not into teaching traditions or by traditional methods. It is easy for some to take his words and twist the meanings and start rumors because of his unique methods.
I have heard him address the charge of being a "Modalist" and do not believe he is one. IMO, CARM has a strong reputation of putting twists onto other's theology or words when they have an agenda to put something down, I've seen them do it on other issues like in defining "libertarian freewill" and "replacement theology" and no doubt they would be doing the same to someone who is as forthcoming as Murray about him condemning the rapture teachings. CARM has very little credibility with me because of what I’ve witnessed of their shameful and vengeful expositions.
One thing about Murray is that he does not criticize other people or denominations, he simply teaches the Word and lets the chips fall were they may, which is more than I can say about his adamant critics. He often says not to take his word on things but to study the Word and check these things out for yourself. “That everyday in the Word is a good day.” :tongue3: lol
Right or wrong on his doctrinal issues, some of which are pretty far out there, I believe he is more honorable, open and honest about his discrepancies than most his critics.
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nevermind......
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Scarlett O. ModeratorModerator
Teaching that Eve had sex with the devil and teaching that Cain's descendants survived the Flood is NOT teaching the Word. Teaching that there were pre-Adamic people, that Christians will NOT bodily resurrect, and that people in hell will simple be annihilated is NOT teaching the Word of God. -
Ben, are you serious? Murray is a cult leader. He may be charismatic, well read. and educated. But, when you seek out the truth concerning his ministry you can't help to see that he is cultic in his true teachings and beliefs.
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
He certainly cannot be taken seriously as he wanted nothing more than an opportunity to criticize Carm the same way he criticized others for criticizing Whatshisface. What a merry go round. -
I’m not supporting his doctrines and don’t know all what depth he goes into, but from what I know about this run off over the “pre-Adamic people” it has something to do with that he believes in a gap theory and explains it in “earth ages”. I don’t think he teaches or believes there was “man” before Adam, but angels of a sort, or something like that in the “first earth age” which was destroyed (Gen 1:1,2) and that somehow that works in with supporting his gap theory. Again, when you have adamant YEC’s hearing support of a gap theory you are going to get accusations such as “teaching a people before Adam” I just take all the rhetoric from both sides of this issue with a grain of salt. I don’t know the answers about creation, but do question the accusation of Murray’s gap theory actually being deemed a cultic teaching.
From what I have heard, Murray does not believe that the flesh/dust of the earth is resurrected but he does believe in the resurrection in a new body. That is different than “NOT believing in a bodily resurrection”. Again, that seems to be a condemning motivated twist on his actual words, beliefs, or teachings from what I have heard.
I know you guys don’t like Murray and I certainly don’t buy into a lot of his teachings, but he has caused me to dig deeper, beware of traditions, and has made some valid eye opening points about such things as in eschatology. All I’m saying is that I have heard him teach a lot of this stuff and what I hear of the expositions over his teachings most often appear to be twists on what he actually says (most of this began by CARM and being repeated like an ugly rumor). At least from my observations.
Don’t get me wrong, because I don’t have a love affair with the guy and he would actually tick me off at times; I rarely ever watch him anymore and when I do it is usually just for a short time and then I usually leave giggling to myself and shaking my head. I just don’t hate him and have not seen the type of evidence that would make me call him cultic.
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Other than that, it is true that Murray does not discuss gosip about him, other people or denominations, but sticks to the Word and if that example stings a bit, so be be it. -
The bible warns us about listening to false teachers. It doesn't warn us to just limit our listening. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Actually it is obvious since you do the very thing your complain about. Using phrases like "agenda to put down" assigns motive. You own words reveals your agenda. -
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But that is not the only false teaching that Murray espouses.
I'm not sure what hyper-Calvin you are referencing. If you'readdressing the Outside The Camp and Brandon Kraft doctines okay. However if you want to libel the Gospel Standard folks for instance, you are way out of line and have no discernment. The latter group adhere to teachings that are at odds with Scripture at various points -- but most of their beliefs (as seen in their creedal statement) is quite orthodox and within the realm of biblical norms.
I just don't get the disconnect you are experiencing.
This determinism you speak of -- do Gordon Clark and Herman Hoeksema fall into your category of heresy?
It would be better for you not to use the terms cult or cultic anyway -- it confuses the issues.
Not necessarily cultic, but certainly in serious error.
Why do you make it a personal matter? I don't like (hate) the policies of Obama. That doesn't mean I hate him personally.
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For you, let's just say that the "p" is right next to the "o" and that would be your first clue to think on.
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