Sheri Klouda surprised at fallout from her ‘removal’ at Southwestern

Yes.

:type:

 

The seminaries must not always teach what the convention dictates. They must teach God's word. The SBC supported the BFA in Arizona and many pastors spoke out against it. Eventually the BFA was exposed for what it was both in the press and Federal Government.

Are you saying that the matter with Klouda and Bullock must be left up to the same trustees who lied to those around them about Dilday. Why should anyone trust proven liars? God's work is too important to be entrusted to proven men like that.

Seems as though Patterson and the trustees with their malicious ways have done more than anyone to get press coverage.

 

Then he should have been exposed publically for who he is. It is true that the trustees are more than willing to accept the word of a lying student over the professor and his colleagues. Tells us a lot about their willingness to entertain an accusation against an elder on much less than according to God's word.

 

Blaising supports a theology not found among SBC professors until Patterson came along.

 

Then Adrian Rogers was very wrong.

If you want people of integrity and Christian conviction teaching/discipling students at SBC seminaries, they cannot throw away biblical convictions to teach according the to theological/political whims of whoever is in control of the convention each year.

Furthermore, the convention has not spoken on this issue, so Patterson is out-of-step with the convention to enforce this position.

 

It is a very difficult thing to determine the will of the "convention". But I believe the BF&M 2000 does indeed speak to this issue. Article 6 states that the Church's Scriptural offices are that of Pastor and Deacon and that these offices are limited to men as qualified by Scripture. Therefore, if men are to be pastor/teachers, it is logical to conclude that the teachers of these men, in areas of theological training, should as well be men. I do not find this to be an unreasonable assumption, or a bad read of the BF&M2000. It is a shame what happened to a fine woman of faith (from all accounts). But the decision is intrusted to the trustees of Southwestern, not the media. Because a few bloggers, Burleson, and the CBF coverts operating within the SBC find this action offensive, it is not a reason to hash this matter out in public.

As to Dr. Rogers being wrong, I would disagree. The SBC exists only to serve the autonomous, local, likeminded SBC churches and their desire to carry out the Great commission and Acts 1:8. Likewise its entities should in good faith seek to 1) Serve the Lord 2) Serve the Lord as instructed by an interpretation of Scripture consistent with that of the majority of member churches. 3) Be an extention of the local church. This is and can only be done by a strict adherence to the word of God. (in this case specifically, the affirmation of the BF&M 2000.

I attend Missouri Baptist University, a former Missouri Baptist Convention entity (in litigation). Though our theology dept is quite sound, the basic standard of the university is falling away from the traditional Baptist heritiage (all this only in the last 6 years). By not requiring faculty and staff to affirm the BF&M 2000, the standards by which the University were founded have begun to erode. Like so many educational institutions before, God will be slowly rooted out for a more liberal and syncretistic theology.

Anywho.....I have to choose a Seminary by fall of 08. Southwestern is at the top of my list, along with Midwestern and NOBTS. I am not aware of the previous actions of the trustees of Southwestern and why the poster on here would consider them "liars". Something I intend to investigate. Many great men of God have come out of Southwestern. I doubt that it is bad as some would suggest.


K

 

Adrian Rogers' famous remark about "If we say that pickles have souls, that is what should be taught" was one of the last straws for those of us who have consistently stood for soul freedom and for the liberty of conscience as the hallmarks of the Baptist identity. I, for one, believe that if faith-filled scholars are allowed to pursue the meaning of the Scriptures honestly, and without the shackles of an a priori credal statement, they will ultimately arrive at conclusions that are nearer the truth than those who are forced into teaching what they are told to teach.

Part of this discourse has to do with the meaning of "teach". To teach is not to declare, unequivocally, some alleged truth. To teach is to lead students to discover truth by honest, sound, methods. I believe that that is what I received at SBTS in the 1960's, now so devalued by the "conservative resurgence" folks.

Another way to say it is that the Scripture needs no defending. It needs only exploration and exposition, so that its great meaning may emerge. Otherwise we are going to end up defending the indefensible -- not the Bible, but certain traditions of interpretation, too often ahistorical and not conditioned by the larger learnings of the church.

 

Even though we often disagree, this is one of your better posts.

 

I find it to be absolutely hilarious and the words of a genious......accually....the words of a soul basking in the warmth of the glory of God as we speak.

Do you mean a new meaning? I rather think that the basic meaing of the Bible have already been discovered. certain applications emerge as a result of new paradigm shifts.......But I am pretty confident that we as Baptists have discovered the truth to most doctrine. would be pastors at our seminaries need to learn it our way or go to more liberal seminaries where they will teach it any way.

Removing a set of standards by which we teach will only relegate our seminaries to houses of philosophy that will eventually be eaten up by larger universities with polo and lacross teams.

I am new here.......My name is Kevin. I am a Christian, a Southern Baptist, a non-Calvinist, ministry student, 31, and sometimes too opinionated. :smilewinkgrin:

 

Some of the resurgence folks have checked their brains at the entrance and hung them on the door post. I find that a number of them do not want the truth because they bristle up when confronted by it. The want conformity and not unity. Any man who wants to live lavishly and get a new library to house his books while the students he "leads" are just wanting to get an education and then decries that money is needed lacks in leadership according to what Jesus declared as the first shall be last. Leadership requires that he serve his followers not by lavish living as we see common among the world. Even John stated that Jesus must increase and he must decrease.

 

Who wanted a new library? A.R.?

 

Paige Patterson, the current president of SWBTS.

 

Ok....sorta jumping around I see...as we were talking about Adrian rogers...but that is ok. If I am correct, most University and Seminary Presidents are given private residences on Campus property. (i.e. a President's mansion). Certainly not uncommon. For the purpose of entertaining guests and benefactors of the institution. So was this library a personal Library? Or one for the school? or is he just being demonized like so many other non-calvinistic Southern Baptists?


K

 

The president's home has been there to serve three presidents before him. It is a large home. It was there when the seminary was much larger and guests were entertained as well. Dr. Dilday's wife did a lot of the cooking for the guests. One of the presidents had children who lived there. Now it is a home for two people and to house his personal library and trophy animals. In that home was a large library room that the previous president's used. It seemed sufficient for them. The president has an office on campus that can house numerous books as well.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I still don't think she was surprised . . .

But, what do I know . . .

:laugh:

 

If you want to see another side of what happened at Southwestern, I would suggest that you get a copy of Russell Dilday's book Columns. It includes his columns written for the Southwestern monthly magazine while he was president of SWBTS. You can see for yourself his perspective of how things degenerated after the fundamentalist takeover of the SBC. Don't let anyone kid you. It may have been couched in doctrinal and theological terms, but this was a power grab.

I will mention two points that are discussed in Dilday's book. First, each year the trustees sent a letter to the SBC Committee on Boards detailing the kinds of expertise they needed in the new trustees for the coming year. The expertise needed related to projects planned for the year (e. g., financial, building, etc.). After the takeover Dilday was told that he was not to request trustees. He would be told what kind of trustees he would be given.

Second, after some examination, one of the new pro-takeover trustees announced that he had found no evidence to support the charges of liberalism that had been levelled against Dilday. Eventually, he was fired anyway.

You need to do some more investigation. My sources say that Patterson has spent over $600,000 on his additions to the president's residence. Those are our Cooperative Program dollars in action.

Tim Reynolds

 

Timsings writes:
"You need to do some more investigation. My sources say that Patterson has spent over $600,000 on his additions to the president's residence. Those are our Cooperative Program dollars in action."

What is the need for this large library? It sounds like only an ego thing.

Today everything one needs concerning access to information is on the internet. All they need for practical purposes is a good computer and a big screen (large print). I suspect the old mansion library was more than big enough for that.

Perhaps the president of this educational institution is computer illiterate.

 

Doesn't that kind of lavish living remind you of the health & wealth gospel as well as the message of the book of Amos?

Ever notice that most of the faculty at http://www.bhcti.org/ are from SWBTS.

Dr. Bruce Corley left SWBTS and then came back but left when Patterson showed up.

 

If you go to most university libraries today there are hardly any students in them because the libraries subscribe to so many databases which access materials around the world. A student can access those databases from home in a few seconds.