No, it's not wrong. His methods are questionable. He could confront them in a different manner that doesn't embarrass them or cause a hostile reaction. He could leave the exact same invitation under their windshield wiper, instead of mailing it to them - that would give them the same message while avoiding the controversial privacy invasion issue. And it would also be a lot less work!!! Why isn't he doing that? Why does he feel the need to make a point of showing them that he can track their license plates? Why is he not considering that some people borrow cars from others, thus the mailing is potentially going to the wrong person? Why is he not considering that some people who park there might be going into the store next door? This man is not witnessing for Christ, he's witnessing for himself.
Should Baptists Defend Porn Perverts & Adult Bookstores?
Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by rbrent, Feb 5, 2004.
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I can find no record in the Bible of Jesus discovering a person's sin and then telling someone else about it. Jesus does confront, but any time Jesus confronts someone on a speciic individual sin, he does so one on one. The method this pastor is using doesn't appear to be a method that's biblically supportable. I also fail to see CHristian love demonstrated here.
On a side note, wouldn't it be terrible if one of us went to a pastor to confess a sin and get help pvercoming it, and he phoned our spouse to divulge the sin to them? -
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I really can't believe this is being discussed yet again.
The bottom line is: Like it or not, these folks have a legal right, as morally wrong as it may be, to go to this store without being harassed.
The true Christian response for someone genuinely concerned about the people involved would be to talk to them in private to express his concern. I'm not sure this pastor is so concerned about the individuals. If he is, I'm surprised he chose this method.
To stop the business, he needs to go via legal means through the local government and their zoning ordinances.
After reading the responses of others, rbrent, you are wrong to accuse anyone here of supporting the porn store. It is clear that that they do not, just question the method of protest.
Charles -
Charlesga wrote - "The bottom line is...these folks have a legal right, as morally wrong as it may be, to go to this store without being harassed...you are wrong to accuse anyone here of supporting the porn store...Charles"
Tortured as your illogic is, I'm having trouble following it!
* * * *Are you saying you're not supporting the porn store BUT you are only supporting the "legal right" of the perverts to go to the porn store?
I expect the perverts are grateful for your support of their "legal rights."
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I wonder if you would be so ardent in your defense of "the legal rights" of perverts to shop in porn stores if the perverts and the porn stores were in your neighborhood?
The fact of the matter is, you don't know what other methods this pastor and church have already used to try to "reach" these pervs.
Obviously its a problem in that neighborhood - that's why local businesses and individuals are supporting sterner methods.
Porn Perverts, in my estimation, need to be photographed and made aware that decent citizens have their address and license tag and are keeping an eye on them.
Watching them so they know they are being watched might keep them from raping, kidnapping, assaulting, molesting some innocent child. -
JohnV: "In my city, an adult book/video store must be
at least 100 years from a school or residence."
In my state, Oklahoma, an adult book/video store
must be over 1,000 feet from a preschool, school,
or church. That doesn't leave any room for one
in the two metro areas.
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Charlesga:
To stop the business, he needs to go via legal means through the local government and their zoning ordinances.
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=2026&u=/latimes_ts/texaschurchcardspeoplewhopatronizeadultstores&printer=1
Norwood's campaign against adult businesses picks up on a theme that began four years ago when Kennedale — a Fort Worth suburb — annexed 58 acres of unincorporated land. With the expansion came five sexually oriented businesses that the city then tried to force out .
The businesses sued in federal court , claiming violations of free expression. Three of the businesses have since settled their claims, agreeing to close, relocate or — in one compromise — add a pizza parlor to dilute the impact of its primary line of business. Tired of the bickering, Norwood and a group of church volunteers last month armed themselves with digital cameras and began patrolling the parking lots of the two businesses still involved in the lawsuit.
Norwood is aiming his camera at a white sedan parked at a strip club, the driver still in the car, absently changing the knobs on the radio. Another man leaving the club notices Norwood, slips behind the wheel of his pickup and hurries out of the lot. Too late. Norwood had photographed his license plate.
John Gamboa, a lawyer for one of the businesses that has settled with the city, said Norwood's photo campaign is harmless. "If this man wants to spend money on postcards, fine. As long as he stays within the bounds of the law, he has every right to do it. What he seems to forget is as long as we stay within the bounds of the law, we have every right to be there," he said.
Norwood, a former city councilman in nearby Arlington, has no intention of stopping. As long as the sexually oriented businesses remain in Kennedale, his camera will be at the ready, he said.
"Even if they move somewhere else in town, we'll keep at it. Whether it's 2 o'clock in the afternoon or 2 o'clock in the morning, there's a good possibility we'll take a picture and send a postcard."
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"All that is necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing."
-- Edmund Burke (1729-97)
Or for the Brothers and Sisters to condemn a Brother who is doing something about evil .
A servant of Christ,
Drew -
How about we get the license number and address of everyone who has a speeding ticket?
Why don't we send a tract about gluttony to everyone over weight person in town?
How about next we target all the divorced people in town, after all thats public information too.
Lets stand in front of the local bar or liquor store and get the license numbers and target them for stalking?
Jay walkers?
Those who spit on the sidewalk?
People who eat brussel sprouts?
Sin is sin, it has a lot of different names.
Jesus didn't do this, we should not be doing it either. What kind of witness are they that they think stalking is OK? -
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Now, don't get me wrong here---I ain't supporting no porn store when I say what I say---but on the other thread I commented that the preacher in question just may be "going about it" all wrong---shooting a picture of the license tag and post carding it to the recipient---to me, its a form of Second handed "tattle-tailin'"---squellin' on the hapless chaps caught in a trap they need to desperately get out of---and takin' their pictures ain't gonna help "spring" the trap---but may be incentive to close the jaws even tighter!!! They're gonna go in the store no matter who is takin' their "Candid" picture--because they're in bondage! Besides, probably the good majority that go in the store are lost and need to know Christ as Savior and Lord---they go in---because thats what sinners do!! Sinners go in and every time they go in they go in a little bit deeper over their heads!
The patrons of the establishment are beyond embarrassment! They probably don't give a rip if their wives catch them---what I'm saying is---there's a way to "get rid" of the store itself----and then again---there's a way to help the patron be free from his bondage! The preacher is just going about it the wrong way! If it were me---and I were in bondage---It wouldn't matter to me if Billy Graham was taking the pictures and displaying them at his crusades via PowerPoint and DVD---I would want Billy to instead---tell me how I can be free from the porn grip! Taking pictures of license tags and surprising them with it---will no more set them free than if you hid the cigarette lighter from the heavy smoker---he'll just find another lighter somewhere---same way with the porn bondage---they'll find another place to get it---any place---because of the terrible bondage!
Get it??
Brother David -
I got this from the Texas DMV, I hope people think the actual Tx DMV is telling the truth.
http://www.onlinedmv.com/TX_Texas_dmv_department_of_motor_vehicles.htm
So the question isn't should Christians defend porn perverts and adult book store owners, but rather, should Christian break the law so the can stalk people who are not breaking the law? -
Amen, Brother David! Amen!
I don't condone the porn store, either.
I said their motives are right, but their methods are wrong.
And the methods you were talking about were what I meant.
It's spiritual warfare, folks. You don't fight a spiritual warfare playing candid camera. -
Are their motives really correct? What, exactly, are their motives?
To shame someone to salvation? Nowhere in the scripture.
To blackmail someone to salvation? Well, find that for me.
To cost someone his job to bring him to salvation? Don't see that there, either.
Mean-spritedness and self rightousness is more likely. It's a common affliction, unfortunately.
Now, if folks in the neighborhood want to do this, they have the right because they live there and can do what they feel justified to clean up the area. But a church getting involved? -
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Personal confrontation or picketing, yes, this? NO! -
Watchman - I can certainly see your point and a few of the points made by other posters,
However, as I read the article, the Pastor and the folks who help him in this endeavor watch the folks who pull into that parking lot and photograph the cars & tags of the people who go into the porn store.
I notice no one has addressed the issue of letting these perverts know that someone has their car description and tag number
And that doing that might keep them from molesting a little kid or raping a woman.
I'm more concerned for the innocent people these pervs might molest than for the alleged "legal rights" of the pervs. -
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Originally posted by LadyEagle:
[QB] I don't condone the porn store, either.
I said their motives are right, but their methods are wrong.OK, how in the world could the motives of a porn store be right?Click to expand...Click to expand...
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