Why? Why anything?
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; Hebrews 2:14
The Common Denominator. Is that it?
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:19,20
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8
Why would it be necessary for man, made a little lower than the angels to have free will?
If he has free will he is then going to have to save himself because in the end of it all he will have to choose.
Since Adam what has every man that has chosen to will, willed?
The only man born of woman for whom it mattered was, the Christ, made a little lower than the angels.
He has become the new creation.
Should we put much stock in relatively NEW doctrine?
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Skandelon, Mar 8, 2014.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
2] The chicken came first
3] regeneration comes first -
The way I understand foreknowledge is that God cannot learn anything, God already knew Eve would choose to partake of the forbidden fruit, God already knew Adam would choose to sin, God already knew Noah would choose to obey and build the ark, God already knew David would choose to slay the giant, God already knew Judas would choose to reject Jesus as Christ, God already knew _________ would choose to....etc. -
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Rom 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. 21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe.
Rom 9:30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works.
Two types of righteousness:
1. Righteousness pursued by works = unattainable
2. Righteousness pursued by faith = attainable
How can proof that righteousness by works is unattainable likewise prove that righteousness by faith is unattainable, as Calvinists suggest? -
As an aside I think the Dispensationalists on this board would make the argument that the fact that their theological system did not appear until the mid-19th Century is immaterial. What's good for the goose.... -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
this will help:wavey: -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
hope you are not suggesting evolution;
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
It is 24 hour days....The creation rest[sabbath]..was a 24 hour period...not billions of years.:thumbs: -
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Later we read regarding Abraham.
Romans 4:17-24
17. (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18. Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19. And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24. But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;.
Skan, I do not consider myself a student of Calvinism. I have never read anything written by Calvin and have no desire to do so. I have read some authors who teach the doctrines of Sovereign Election and Grace, notably Dagg, Lloyd-Jones, Nettles, some of Boyce who is difficult to follow, and then Conner, considered to be weak on the Doctrines by some.
I believe that Scripture teaches that the believer is justified or declared righteous because of his faith. We may argue the origin of that faith but not its result. -
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The foreknowledge of faith is shown in scripture, John chapter 1 for example, Jesus knew Nathanael would be a believer before he ever met Jesus. Another example of foreknowledge of faith (or lack of) is Judas in John chapter 6, where scripture says Jesus "knew from the beginning who believed not". If Jesus knew from the beginning who would not believe, then he also knew from the beginning who would believe. So foreknowledge of faith is shown directly in scripture.
Calvinism's belief that man is unconditionally elected is nothing but pure presumption.
Scripture actually states that men are chosen because of faith.
Jam 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Men are not chosen because they are poor, a poor man can go to hell like any other man, but no man who trusts in God ever goes to hell, so this verse shows men are chosen because of faith.
2 Thes 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
This verse directly says men are chosen to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit (God's part) and belief of the truth (man's part).
There is much evidence that we are elected because of faith. -
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
God does not look forward to learn anything[prescience]
From A Baptist Catechism with commentary;
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Winman
I posted this earlier in the thread...it fits your false ideas rather well.
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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