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Featured Simple way that the bible teaches Free Will

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by prophecy70, Oct 12, 2020.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Again I agree with you.

    And I believe this is true of this man: And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. --- He was created of the flesh, carnal, for the purpose of when sin came, dying he would die. How do we know that? Because God has told us that before the foundation of the world it was foreordained for the Son of Man, Christ, to shed his precious blood, die the death, for redemption.

    Adam along with everything created before day seven was: for to vanity was the creation made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope,

    That hope being the foreordained obedient unto death even the death of the cross of, Christ, the Son of Man.

    I believe the following is important to the thought above.

    2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
     
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  2. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    What verse do you want to look at?


    All definitions do, you just are ignoring the definition.

    I can't draw you a picture, but let me try again.

    A choice is:

    choosing between 2 or more options.

    an option is an alternative possibility.

    a possibility is something that MAY or COULD happen.

    If you do not have an ability, it it COULDN'T happen, therefore is NOT an option.


    That concludes its not a choice!


    How much more simple could it be that to make a choice you need ability?
     
  3. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Why not just say Conviction causes ability because conviction is the drawing.
    MB
     
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    What Is Free Will? by R.C. Sproul
     
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  5. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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  6. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    Source of your definition that mentions you must have the ability to choose or its not a true choice. I didn't ask for commentary.

    No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them. John 6:44. The gospel message is a choice to be made right?
     
  7. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    I already said all dictionaries that give you a definition of choice (the power of choosing) and Option (alternative possibility)

    You do not understand what words mean?

    Wow, I explained the definition of choice and option numerous times.

    If you say the gospel is a choice, then both options have to be a possibility.

    Are you saying 1 option is an impossibility?

    Then its not a choice.
     
  8. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    What I understand that choice does not assume ability. The dictionary never mentions that choice necessitates ability.

    Unless God intervenes then yes, it is impossible for me to make the choice to believe even though we preach to all and everyone is given the choice
     
  9. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    So you don't understand the definition of choice. Okay.

    The definition of choice assumes ability or its not a choice

    You can't make a choice with only one option.

    I can't help your ignorance of definitions anymore, I tried to be clear.
     
  10. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    "The definition of choice ASSUMES ability", it does? Who says?

    No one says you can make a choice with one option. Nice strawman.

    I asked you to provide a definition of choice from anyone or anything other than yourself that would assert choice presumes ability. You have nothing.
     
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    A choice certainly assumes ability to make that decision other wise why offer the choice? Do you think God is ignorant and offers us choice when He would know whether or not we are capable to make a choice?
    Maybe you think God is sadistic.and offers choice just to torture us.
    MB
     
  12. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    No, a choice does not assume ability. That's simply assumed by you.

    Why offer the choice? Must I be sure of one's ability to make a choice before one is given? How would you propose I do that?

    I certainly don't think God is ignorant. Let me ask, if God gives a choice, assuming your position on ability is correct, and He knows your choice ahead of time is that really a choice? You can not chose other than how God knows your going to chose right? So in a sense you could not have chosen otherwise correct? I assume you believe God is omniscient.
     
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  13. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Assume is what you do is it not?
    If God knows all there is to know why would He offer a choice if he already knows the answer. Yet there are many offers in scripture made by God.
    Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
    This is a offer to all that labor. We all labor and this requires a choice not predetermined.
    MB
     
  14. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Do you understand what a choice is? Power of choosing between two or options.

    Do you understand what options are?

    A possibility

    How can you have a possibilty that you don't have the ability to preform?

    You can't even exegete a dictionary.
     
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  15. prophecy70

    prophecy70 Active Member

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    Thats still a choice, you had the ability to choose between two alternative possibilities of action.

    If God knows what you are going to choose, your action logically preceded God's knowledge of said choice.
     
  16. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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    Freewill is a lie started by Lucifer when he said numerous times: "I will..." The first created being to invoke his will contrary to God's autonomy.

    I agree with Martin Luther:
    Full text of "Full text of "Martin Luther on the bondage of the will : to the venerable mister Erasmus of Rotterdam, 1525""

    Excerpts from the above document
    An evident proof this, that Freewill is a downright lie
    The truth, however, is, that God has never given Freewill (if by Freewill is meant an uncontrolled will) to any creature.
    Freewill is not a matter of the Spirit, or of Christ, but a mere human affair
    Freewill, by its own strength, cannot but fall ; and has no power, save to commit sin
    Freewill is nothing but Satan s captive packhorse, which cannot have freedom, unless the devil be first of all cast out by the finger of God.
    Freewill is nothing but the chiefest enemy of righteousness and of man s salvation ; because it cannot be, but that some amongst these Jews and Gentiles have acted and endeavoured with the uttermost power of Freewill; and yet with this very Freewill have done nothing but wage war against grace.

    I agree with Charles Spurgeon:
    The Spurgeon Center

    Free-Will - A Slave
    "And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life."—John 5:40

    " This is one of the great guns of the Arminians, mounted upon the top of their walls, and often discharged with terrible noise against the poor Christians called Calvinists. I intend to spike the gun this morning, or, rather, to turn it on the enemy, for it was never theirs; it was never cast at their foundry at all, but was intended to teach the very opposite doctrine to that which they assert. Usually, when the text is taken, the divisions are: First, that man has a will. Secondly, that he is entirely free. Thirdly, that men must make themselves willing to come to Christ, otherwise they will not be saved"
     
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  17. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    *Free will is defined as “volition” and this sustains the meaning that man has the ability to consciously choose; one cannot do both, have this ability and not have this ability in any logical sense. If man's response is determined by causal means to have an irresistible effect on the man then man's volition logically becomes void. ~Benjamin
     
  18. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    There was a man who fell off a cliff and was caught on some rocks over a cold river. He was bruised and beaten with no chance of choosing anything, other than lying in a crumpled up mess. Rescue workers found him and after many hours they extracted the man and got him to a hospital where he healed and ultimately went home.

    Every human being is that man, but the disaster is much, much worse when we are talking about the effects of sin. In our spiritual condition the Bible says we were dead in our trespasses and sins. A miraculous resurrection was needed.

    Now, tell me what choice can be made in those circumstances.

    The argument of free will is a fallacy brought on by the fact that even Christians don't think we were as bad off as we were. We harbor these thoughts that we were actually not that bad and God didn't really need to save us, but instead we were quite healthy and through rational thought we decided to choose God as the God in which we would believe.
     
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  19. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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  20. Craig Hooker

    Craig Hooker New Member

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    Free will is something that is presumed or at the very least ones definition of free will. For instance, is your will free from God's providence or sovereignty?
     
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