You are misstating the Christus Victor view.
Sin and Substitutionary Atonement salvation
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by The Biblicist, Sep 6, 2012.
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However, I firmly hold to the Christus Victor view and will not change my mind as I believe it is the view which does the most justice to the birth, life, death, and resurrection of Jesus and to God's character. -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Please don't respond that it was necessary in the sense to prove he was human as there are many other characteristics that prove he was human. -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Second, This "victim" concept of humanity, victimized by sin, Death and Satan with God coming to the rescue is a complete distortion.
Third, the life of Christ as some kind of moral example instead of necessary to satisfy the righteous demands of God's law misses the point entirely.
Fourth, the biblical emphasis on the death of Christ is there is no remission from sins apart from the shedding of blood whereas the resurrection justifies that Christ completely satisfied the full JUST demands of God toward sin and salvation. -
Here are two good articles; the first is by Greg Boyd. Now I know you probably hate Boyd, but read through this; it is excellent.
http://reknew.org/2008/01/the-christus-victor-view-of-the-atonement/
The second article: http://loveacceptforgive.com/2009/09/16/the-christus-victor-view-of-atonement/ -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
1. Satan's power in this world was established by Adam and Eve's choice to advocate their inheritance/rule rights and yeild them to Satan. Eve only was deceived but not Adam - this was yeild by willful consent. Hence, Satan's rule is by consent of those he rules over. They are captives by CONSENT! They are "SERVANTS" by nature (Eph. 2:2-3). Their servitude is JUST because it is by willful consent. It is man that has rebelled against God by willful consent to Satan's rule and that is the GUILT of their JUST bondage.
Hence, they are not VICTIMS as this theory presents them but they are ACCOMPLICES in open rebellion against God.
2. Moreover these words show the deviousness of this theory:
Salvation clearly involves forgiveness of sins, but this forgiveness is itself rooted in a person getting freed from Satan’s grip
Not so! It is rooted in the redemptive work of Christ and freedom is a consequence not the cause or root of forgiveness. Remission of sins is rooted in the blood of Christ shed in order to obtain remission of sins.
Christ as the "second" Adam provides the JUST basis to reclaim what Adam forfeited for all humanity as the appointed representative of mankind and willfully so by rebellion against God. God's wrath is justly revealed from heaven against sin. That wrath is satisfied by the a RIGHTEOUS man taking upon himself the JUST consequences of sin for those he represents as the "second" Adam thus reclaiming the inheritance God gave to man through the resurrection. Satan's reign is by WILLFUL CONSENT BY THE GOVERNED but Christ is the one human being who does not give that consent and acts as a Second Adam to reclaim the inheritance through refusal to bow to Satan and then to reclaim it for those he represents by satisfying the wrath of God against their WILLFUL CONSENT to submit to Satan (sin) and restore them to their former position through His death and resurrection. -
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The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
It seems this discussion is about atonement and how that works. I'm personally not aware of a Christus Victor view however by the words I think I get its meaning and based on just the title seems to match a little of my view. The last thread we discussed atonement we weren't really discussing this aspect but the larger "how is one saved". Atonement is one aspect and I want to give more substance to the specific topic of Atonement
What is my view? Well, to be honest I'm still working it out. However, I will express to the best of my ability how I see it. As biblicist points out at the begining of this thread in order to understand the christian doctrine of Atonement we must first discussed what is being atoned. In the begining we see that man was made in the image of God. The likeness of God. When we sinned several things happened. We corrupted the image of God in us, we fell under the bondage of corruption and death, we became slaves to sin, we seperated our selves from God, and we became enemies of God. This being the case what does God do then?
Well, from the Catholic Encyclopedia we see that -
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the blood of goats/lambs did NOT have the means to remit sins, ONLY the blood of jesus! -
Thinkingstuff Active Member
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For it pleased the father to have jesus bruised/wound/bloodied/and killed for our sins and iniquities, and jesus came to earth to willingly do that for those to come that would get saved by His death on their behalf! -
The Biblicist Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Divine pleasure and satisfaction refer to his HOLY pleasure in seeing JUSTICE administered against sin - and our inquitties were "LAID UPON HIM". His justice was "satisfied" in pouring out his wrath upon the Substitute for sin. -
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Thinkingstuff Active Member
I have a son I tell him not to take the fruit off the table and he does. I'm so angry that I have to kill something and nothing will work except I kill my son. So his brother says hey. Kill me instead. So I beat him up and kill him to satiate my anger? Because it makes me happy to torture and kill someone when I get angry. Does that sound like God to you? If someone did that where I live not only would he be thrown in jail but he would need to visit the shrink.
I like what one blogger said
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