So much for its Trumps fault or bears any responsibility

Yes...."many states". That is my point.

We seem to want a fair national election, but at the same time we want to keep it at the state level. Politics is politics. I do not know that there is a good answer for how elections are handled.

 

Long ago I was in Norway, just north of the artic circle. Several NCO's got beer and stayed at the cabin we were in at the time. They drank the beer (we had a two beer limit, but they drank more). One of my soldiers went to town and drank more than two beers and got caught (another came back wearing a German uniform....another story). His complaint when he was disciplined for drinking more than two beers was "the squad leaders did the same thing".

My response was to hold him responsible for his actions. Why? Because the actions of other people do not remove responsibility for his own actions. Those squad leaders did the same thing, but they did not get caught because of their situation. My solder got caught because of his situation.

The actions of other people do not remove responsibility for Trump. I agree that his words were no worse than theirs (they were not as bad). But their words were not used to encourage people to riot (not just those who had planned the thing, but others who were drawn in).

I liked Trump as President. I think that he did more for our nation than any other President in recent history. But I am not going to pretend that he has no responsibility for what happened on January 6. I can't do that because it is not true.

I am not saying he caused the riot. But he is responsible for his words and for the environment in which he chose to speak those words.

This is one major problem with our nation today. We have some wanting to censure free speech....but on the other end we have others who believe having the right to do something removes responsibility for doing it.

 

That is a very low standard of responsibility. I disagree, of course. But I hold the Democrats responsible as well (and they did not tell anyone to riot at the Capitol).

Each of us have to decide what comprises character and how one is responsible for their actions. The problem with politics is not only that neither side will take responsibility for their actions, but each side's camp goes along with it.

Trump is responsible for his words, period. He is not responsible for telling them to go riot, I agree there. But he is responsible for continuing the rhetoric and campaigning after the election was concluded. He is responsible for exercising his First Amendment right as an individual at the expense of being the leader he was called to be. So you are wrong that he is not responsible at all, but you are right that Trump was not at least the sole cause of the riots. The DNC is just as responsible, as are those who were there to incite the mob.

 

The Democrats DID NOT tell people to riot. Trump DID NOT tell people to riot.

The Democrat's words and actions WERE used to encourage riots during the summer.

Trump's words WERE used to encourage the riot and unrest at the Capital. That is beyond question. Trump supporters who got caught up in the thing stated as much.

I'm sorry brother, but I cannot help but see hypocrisy on all sides (to include yours). The only differenced between the riots this summer related to the DNC and the riot at the Capital was timing. The DNC wanted to use the riots for their advantage (they blamed them on Trump). Trump wanted to use the rally's to his advantage.

Both Trump and the DNC continued the rhetoric, continued the lies, continued the propaganda. But Trump took it too far when he held a rally to his devoted, at the Capital, when the electoral votes were being received (which is largely ceremonial). Had he done the same thing two months earlier then it would have been perfectly acceptable.

But sometimes we have to demand our leaders act as leaders.

 

I think the real concern is when did Trump realizes that the rally became illegal - ie storming the capitol bldg? Should he have twixed? sooner?, should he have went on TV to inform those who stormed to stop?

 

No. We agree on what they did and what they said, just as we agree on what Trump did and said.

We disagree on accountability/ responsibility.

 

I think you are mistaking here. Trump was actively campaigning for a second term (he was not speaking as President but as a candidate for the 2021 Presidency).

He should have taken off the campaign hat and put on the President hat when the election was over.

 

So are you agreeing that you don't agree????

 

I agree. It does not equal the riot. There were several things that came together for the riot (anarchists, DNC propaganda, Trump propaganda, fraud in the state elections, media bias and ignoring issues, "sheeple" on both sides, and Trump's speech after the election was over).