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Featured Songs and doctrinal correctness

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by rlvaughn, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    These thoughts originated in a discussion a dozen years ago about songs that are not (completely) doctrinally correct. I posted it on my blog then, and decided to post here now. I decided to post it here since the Music Ministry Forum was banished to the nether regions of the BB and hardly anyone participates in discussions there. The songs mentioned were mentioned in the original discussion. They may or may not be familiar to you. The songs are for examples and their use doesn’t mean I endorse all their sentiments.

    Some people seem not to care whether a song is doctrinally correct if they like it (tune, beat, tempo, etc.). Others seem so critical that they wouldn’t like the words of anything they didn’t write/right! Perhaps somewhere in the middle of this is the place to be.

    I thought of four options that are used for handling songs that might be “iffy” (there may be others): sing the song without comment; sing the song but with a comment about the problem; sing the song with altered wording; or don’t sing the song. My personal opinion is usually against altering the wording of someone else’s hymn/poem. Either use it or find another hymn. It seems honest not to tamper with the meaning of someone else’s song without their permission. (I would view slight metrical alterations to fit the music differently.)

    Here are some questions that might be helpful to ask when considering what to do with songs whose sentiments are “suspect”.

    1. What is the hymn writer trying to communicate?
    We may be overly critical of some point in a song when we don’t really understand what the songwriter is trying to say. “Lord, build me a cabin in the corner of Gloryland” – seems the writer is trying to express that he doesn’t deserve a mansion – “I feel I’m not worthy, to receive all of this” – and that a cabin up there is better than a mansion down here (“Don’t care for fine mansions on earth’s sinking sand”). Not bad thoughts to express, in my opinion. But it falls short of recognizing that Jesus has nevertheless promised us a mansion instead of a cabin.

    2. Is the overall message solid with a few questionable words, or is the overall theme of the hymn suspect?
    “O What a Savior”; “they searched thru heaven and found a Savior” – the hymn writer used a literary device that doesn’t come off well in this song, in my opinion (though in Revelation 5, John seems to see something in a vision that uses a similar device). The writer is hopelessly straying in sin and a Savior is sought out to save him. Overall the hymn writer seems intent on glorifying the Savior, giving His death credit for saving even the vilest of sinners. He probably didn’t intend to imply that God wasn’t sure of what He was doing and had to look around to see if He could find a Savior. Yet it does give that impression to many people.

    3. Does the rest of your church (and the wider Christian community) see a problem with these words? If not, could it just be you?
    “There is a fountain filled with blood” – Perhaps one might not like the particular poetic picture drawn by Cowper, but the point that the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin comes through loud and clear. Not only my church, but many churches over several hundred years have approved of the text. That doesn’t make it right, but should give pause – and reason for me to consider carefully why I think something is wrong with it. Am I just a censorious person in general?

    4. Is it a factual error, a doctrinal error or perhaps only an interpretational thing?
    All errors are ultimately doctrinal errors, I suppose, but a song that presents Jesus as not born of a virgin is a different type of error than one that puts the wise men at the manger rather than a house, as Matthew says. This factual error about the house is also different from the interpretational error where some people interpret certain Old Testament verses as prophecy of the birth of Jesus and believe there were three wise men and that they were kings.

    5. Is it wrong because it doesn’t tell the whole story, or does it tell the wrong story?
    “Jesus is coming soon”; “all of the dead shall rise” – all of the dead certainly are going to rise. Perhaps the writer thinks all indiscriminately will rise at Jesus’s 2nd coming, or perhaps he believes the resurrection of the just and unjust will be separate and didn’t explain it in detail. Some think the resurrection of all will be at the same time, while others believe it will be separated by 1000 years or so. Regardless of one’s millennial persuasion, real Christians believe that “all of the dead shall rise.”

    6. What would you do if a preacher or teacher taught what is being sung? If he were a visiting preacher, would you invite him back? If he is the pastor, would it be ignored? Would he be reprimanded? Run off? Another way to approach this is to ask if we are harder on our songs than we would be on our teachers? The songs are easy victims – they can’t talk back, don’t get their feelings hurt, and we don’t have to challenge them face to face. Someone criticized the song “My Sins Are Gone” because “...The chorus has a line that says, ‘In the sea of God’s forgetfulness that’s good enough for me’ but, one cannot find the phrase sea of forgetfulness in the Bible.” How many times do we preachers preach using some phrase or word that is not found in the Bible like “the sea of God’s forgetfulness”?

    7. Is there another song that expresses the same truth without the objectionable feature?
    “Just a little talk with Jesus” was criticized because it mentions a little “prayer wheel turning” – which is something Tibetan Buddhist monks do (or use). Cleavant Derricks (1910-1977) was a black Baptist preacher and songwriter. A prayer wheel seems a little odd, since I’ve never thought of it otherwise – but I find it extremely unlikely that Derricks had a Tibetan Buddhist prayer wheel in mind – or had ever even heard of one. More likely it was an attempt to describe a feeling that incited him to prayer. It is very unfortunate that those familiar with a Tibetan prayer wheel might think that rather than what Derricks meant. Perhaps there is another song that similarly exhorts one to prayer, without such an objectionable phrase. This question should probably ultimately follow up all of the other questions. If we can express the same truth without the objectionable features, shouldn’t we do it? But also we should extend grace towards those who don’t come to exactly the same conclusions as we do.

    The only inspired songs are found in the book of Psalms! If we cannot bear to sing any perceived error, however minor, perhaps we should adopt the same mentality as some of the Reformed brethren – sing the Psalms only and exclude all hymns of human composure. Rather than that, I would apply some or all of the questions above and then follow one of three options – sing the song without comment; sing the song but with a comment about the perceived problem; or not sing the song.
     
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  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It is the duty of the Pastor and/or elders to choose the hymns and to make sure that they are doctrinally sound.
    This, if I dare say so, is the problem with 'worship leaders.' They will tend to choose hymns for melodic quality whereas they should be chosen first and foremost for doctrinal content. The sermon is the most important part of a service and the hymns should be chosen to amplify its message so that the people can affirm with their lips what they have heard with their ears and (DV) received into their hearts.

    My least favourite 'hymn' is the one that goes
    'And as we worship we build a throne
    [repeat twice]
    Come Lord Jesus and take Your place.'

    Yuk! Sentimental twaddle!
     
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  3. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    and thus the reason I will NOT refer to a song director/music director as a (so-called) worship leader.

    I fully agree that the songs should complement the message.
     
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  4. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    As church keyboard/organist I have been trusted with choosing hymns. I have sought to know the passage to be preached on & the topic. That has meant the chosen hymns relate to the sermon & the message.

    The church chose "Christian Hymns" as its main hymnbook - a recent publication with largely traditional hymns, almost no children's hymns & a few modern chorus type songs. The problem with the modern songs is that such songs are ephemeral & are constantly being superseded by the latest singer/songwriter guitarist offerings.

    A friendly church produced a compilation of modern songs for themselves & gave us a set. I used about 10% of them, mainly written by the Gettys & Stuart Townend.
     
  5. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    Our new church has pianists more competent than me, so my contribution will be minimal. The chosen hymnbook is the modern, constantly updated "Mission Praise." It does have some well-known "oldies" but Pastor rarely finds them. For the past 50 years I've sung from the tune book, but all we see is OHP screens so using a music book is hardly an option.

    He announced "Amazing Grace" & the church started singing the proper version. Pastor stopped us & insisted on the modern version. Then he chose "My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood & righteousness" to the wrong tune & with the wrong chorus, & leaving out the verse:
    His oath, his covenant & blood support me in the o'erwhelming flood.​

    A visiting preacher included "And can it be...?" I know the harmony of the last lines, but without the music, they will soon be forgotten.

    Also the singer-songwriter guitar type songs have got too many notes - all the show-off bits between verses for the guitar & the pop-group. Played on the piano, we never know when to start singing, even within verses & lines.

    When I played such songs, I would strip away all the redundant notes & play what people should sing.

    Another concern is that we heard many of the sound "traditional" hymns in school assembly & they were repeated often enough for us to remember them through life. The modern ephemerata will soon pass from the repertoire in effect robbing the children.
     
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    One thing I didn't address in the OP is that some songs might be OK for general gatherings for singing and fellowship but best left off in the church gathering. I'd put "Lord, build me a cabin in the corner of Gloryland" in that category. I think I get what the writer was trying to express and am not offended by the song, but think it more appropriate elsewhere than in the church's worship service.

    I've never been in a church where the pastor/pastors/elders or some committee variation of this chose the hymns. (I've also never been in a church with "worship leaders" or "praise choruses".) As a bi-vocational pastor with many time constraints, I wouldn't want to add choosing which hymns will be sung in each worship service. For the most part, a trustworthy song leader and solid hymn book takes care of the problem of singing hymns that aren't doctrinally sound.

    Since I don't announce my topic & the passage to be preached until I am in the pulpit and ready to preach (perhaps I am weird that way), I don't work with the song leader on coordinating the hymns to the message. I think there is room for churches arriving in different ways at singing hymns with doctrinal content if it is thought out one way or the other. (Some of the rural Primitive Baptist churches here sing before the preaching service with individual members calling out selections from their hymn book. But the hymn book is specifically a "denominational" hymn book that expresses the doctrine of their church, so no chance of someone calling out something they don't consider doctrinally sound.)
     
  7. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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  8. Covenanter

    Covenanter Well-Known Member
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    How concerned should we be about the source of a hymn? Many of our standard hymns are by RCs & paedobaptists. When Spurgeon compiled his hymnbook, he was concerned that the words should be Scriptural & wasn't concerned at the denominational allegiance.

    This hymn is from a Mormon, sung by a little girl in a Mormon family. Should we reject it? My prayer is that the peace in Christ may be a reality for all concerned - including those who listen.

    (No relation me -Ian Day- except hopefully a brother in Christ.
     
  9. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    @rlvaughn , I am not a worship leader, so I do not select hymns or praise choruses that my church uses on the Lord's day. So, how do I approach a song that I consider to be unbiblical or doctrinally unsound? I stand prayerfully but do not sing.

    I remember a song that contained the lyrics "I'm standing on this mountaintop waiting for your kingdom to come". I thought those lyrics were stupid and inane. I said to myself, "Is that what the Christian life is about, to just wait for God to come?" At the time I was an elder in that church, so I said something about it. The pastor is a dear friend and he took the song out of the rotation. In my current church, I am a distinct minority in my theological distinctives, so no one is going to listen to me. However, my conscience will not allow me to sing songs that are doctrinally unsound.
     
  10. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    I think the same way you do in these matters. I stand not to be rude. But normally rewrite the lyrics as I go along, at a sound level only I can hear. It's a matter of conscience with me. But some of the greatest lyrics are in the old hymns.
     
  11. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    What are you thoughts about "The King is Coming"
     
  12. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    I have never considered that song as a hymn or a song fit for congregational singing.
     
    #12 Reformed, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  13. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Why is that - and more importantly - your thoughts on the theology of the song.
     
  14. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    The actual line is: "I'm dancing on this mountain top to see your kingdom come"

    It's straight from the Baptist Hymnal, #271 "My Redeemer Lives" (2008 ed., Lifeway)
     
    #14 Jerome, Apr 23, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2018
  15. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    If I get into that it is going to be along the lines of the Regulative Principle of Worship and Baptist Reformed theology, something I surmise is not going to go over well in this thread. It may be best if we just chalk it up to preference.
     
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  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    If one is singing the song in church, it is ipso facto a lie (unless, I suppose, your church is on top of a mountain)..
    Paul's response to that line would be, "Go and get a job!" (2 Thessalonians 3:11-12).
     
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  17. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I dont see a problem discussing it.
    The song says - "the market place is empty - no more traffic in the streets....." That will not be the case!
    Busy wifes will cease their labor..in the court room no debate - other than people being take up in the rapture - things
    will eventually get back to order (unless the defendant is raptured)

    Work will not be suspended - at least permanently -


    Granted the message of the song is that Jesus is coming again!
    YES the Trumpet will sound -
     
  18. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    I dont see a problem discussing it.
    The song says - "the market place is empty - no more traffic in the streets....." That will not be the case!
    Busy wifes will cease their labor..in the court room no debate - other than people being take up in the rapture - things
    will eventually get back to order (unless the defendant is raptured)
     
  19. Reformed

    Reformed Well-Known Member
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    Well, since you asked.

    First, I do not believe in a pretribulational rapture of the Church, so I definitely am not on the same doctrinal page as Bill and Gloria Gaither.

    Second, what and who is the King coming for exactly? What is the song describing? The Millenial Kingdom? After the second coming? The song is a hodge-podge of muddled dispensational theology.

    In a sermon he preached a while back, John MacArthur addressed this famous Gaither song in a message titled "Our God-Breathed Bible". I am sure you are familiar with the story. Someone made a formal request to the Gaithers to explain the theology behind the song. The person claims to have received the following response back from the Gaithers via a letter:

    "Regarding the interpretation of the song The King is Coming, of all songs that song has been a gift from God. Bill and Gloria," that is Mr. and Mrs. Gaither, "do not profess to be theologians. The song came quickly to them and they do not care to discuss the theology of it. In fact, they feel that to dissect the song would be tampering with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who inspired the song."

    The inspiration of the song? That is a bold claim to make. The only words that are inspired are found in the Bible. Now, it is a different thing to say that a person felt inspired to write lyrics to a song, but the official response from the Gaithers did not say that.

    Some of my Presbyterian friends practice what is called "EP" (Exclusive psalmody). In worship, they only sing psalms. They claim that the Psalter is the only inspired hymnal in the Bible. I am not EP but the Psalter does establish a high bar for songs that are going to be used in worship. When we sing corporately before God during worship, should not the lyrics be biblical and doctrinally sound?
     
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  20. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I'd sooner sing, "Lo! He comes with clouds descending!"
     
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