Sovereign in Salvation

[rc]

We know from up front and personal experience

There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

I'll take scripture poured over and studied for hours over "personal experience" EVERY SINGLE TIME.

You've just summed up what you depend on and your way of studying in two words.. personal experience. What a sad commentary.


Scripture defines the human condition and actions.

Human condition does not define Scripture...

 

[Wes Outwest]

The scriptural definition of the human condition is worthless unless you view it from the human viewpoint which one gains from experience!

The word of God is Gods word to man! Not, man's word to God!

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

rc;

I'll take scripture poured over and studied for hours over "personal experience" EVERY SINGLE TIME.

So are you saying you have no personal experince with Christ?

You've just summed up what you depend on and your way of studying in two words.. personal experience. What a sad commentary.

It is by personal experince that we know that the scriptures are truth. Faith is the hope for the unseen. Belief is the knowing by personal experince. The seeing of truth spiritually with a live spirit. Are you sure you don't believe in what you claim to know by experince. If just book learning is all you believe in then you don't really believe it because you haven't experinced it You cannot know what you haven't learned by experince.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
The word of God is Gods word to man! Not, man's word to God!

I agree. That is the reason I like the following passage:

1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
rc;
So are you saying you have no personal experince with Christ?

Are you questioning someones salvation? Isn't that a violation of the rules?

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Old regular;

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
rc;
So are you saying you have no personal experince with Christ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you questioning someones salvation? Isn't that a violation of the rules?

Since when is it against the rules to ask for clarification of a statement?. Accuusing others falsley is against the rules. Are you accusing me?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
Hi Old regular;
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
rc;
So are you saying you have no personal experince with Christ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are you questioning someones salvation? Isn't that a violation of the rules?

Since when is it against the rules to ask for clarification of a statement?. Accuusing others falsley is against the rules. Are you accusing me?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike </font>[/QUOTE]I also used question marks!

 

[johnp.]

Greetings OldRegular.

I also used question marks!

Touche.

johnp.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi Old regular;
You quoted this and grined. a one verse charlie

1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What about?
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
Since the gospel is revealed to all.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Sort of blows your claim out of the water.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

[rc]

God hath revealed them unto us

Since the gospel is revealed to all.

It says to US ILL not ALL... stop changing the text !!

 

[rc]

And Romans 1 God revealed Himself not HIS PLAN FOR SALVATION!!

If you continue you will see what NATURAL man does with the revelation given to him ... He sticks it to God by worshipping the creation !! This only proves MORE how depraved and evil man is. It only proves Rom 3 more and 1 Cor 2 MORE... remember scripture can not be broken, it is systematic. You continually ignore texts like Rom 3 and 1 Cor 2 by thowing more pretext and them and thinking they mean anything... and they don't.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by ILUVLIGHT:
Hi Old regular;

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Sort of blows your claim out of the water.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

Not really. Paul is simply stating that the revelation of God in nature is sufficient to demonstrate His eternal power and Godhead to all mankind so that they are without excuse for their behavior. Jesus Christ says of these people in John 3:17-20

17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi OLd regular;
Thankyou for posting Jn. 3:17-20 It proves that Christ came to save everyone who believes and not just some special elect.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by OldRegular:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
The word of God is Gods word to man! Not, man's word to God!

I agree. That is the reason I like the following passage:

1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. </font>[/QUOTE]I like that passage too! But how does a natural man become a spiritual man? By 'submission only', Not by 'capture'.
Regeneration before belief is Capture!
Belief then regeneration is Submission!

Regeneration before belief is "brainwashing"
Belief then regeneration is willful change. All of scriptures tell us what pleases God is our willingness to believe and to submit to His will!

 

[rc]

I like that passage too! But how does a natural man become a spiritual man? By 'submission only'.

What you just said completely contradicts 1 Cor 2.14.

You can't be given a statement " black THEN white" and say "See... white then black !" That's what you are doing...

Jeremiah 13:23 23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil.

The whole point of this passage is showing that a man CAN NOT change his evil ways! God has to do the work, Ezek 36.26. God HAS to change the HEART. I man with a evil heart will only choose evil things, that's his nature. Why is that so difficult to understand? It wasn't for the apostles who taught our church fathers who made catechisms which state these things. You are going against the church and those who lead it (fathers and apostles).

 

[rc]

ESV Job 23:13 But he is unchangeable,(1 )and who can turn him back? What he desires, that he does.
ESV Isaiah 14:24 The LORD of hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand
ESV Isaiah 14:27 For the LORD of hosts has purposed, and who will annul it? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?

ESV Proverbs 19:21 Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand.

ESV Isaiah 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,

God's purpose will be accomplished. If He purposed you to be saved, you will be saved. If he puposed you not to believe you will not believe.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

God's purpose will be accomplished. If He purposed you to be saved, you will be saved. If he puposed you not to believe you will not believe.

Really Your problem is then that great big "IF" You see that "If" is what you haven't proven to be true. It's still a big old "IF".
What you don't see is that we are all still clay in God's hand.
Jer 18:6 O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel.
I encourage you to go read the whole chapter of what ever verse I post.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

[rc]

The whole point is of the text is the SOVERIEGNTY of God. HE will do with the clay as HE pleases. Thanks for making my point.
If HE creates you for His glory in Heaven, He will. If HE creates you for His glory in damnation, He will. They clay NEVER has a say in what the potter does.

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

rc;
From the rest of the story that you didn't read as instructed;
Jer 18:8 If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

rc;
God doesn't have any Sovereignty according to Calvinist thinking. Calvinism claims it but the claim that even He can't change His own plans. Is making a plan more powerful than God.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike