Do you admit that you do not honor the 4th commandment? Do not keep the 4th commandment on purpose?
Not because you choose to obey it - but sometimes fail - but that you consider it "amoral" and give it no thought at all?
( I actually thought you would jump on board to answer this one)
Do you not find it "odd" Steaver's claim to "honor the Sabbath" and your claim to ignore it entirely - result in the both of you doing the same thing in real life??
Well... I guess there is ONE difference. Your being honest and admitting that you completely ignore God's 4th commandment allows you to freely quote it - where as Steaver's choice to do as you do - but then call in 'honoring' the 4th commandment does not allow him to quote it.
Having said that - God actually says the Sabbath was "MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27.
And "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall aLL MANKIND come before Me to Worship" Is 66:23
As we all know by now.
I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
in Christ,
Bob
Ten Commandments Keep them or break them?
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Nov 26, 2013.
Page 7 of 15
-
-
Here is my post:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=2058480&postcount=117
Still unanswered. I am waiting. -
Recall that my post was on the TEN Commandments as follows --
======================================
"Here is the perseverance of the SAINTS, here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
-- DHK responds with the Bible contradicting idea that some of the Commandments are "AMORAL".
-- DHK responds that they cannot be kept no matter if the Bible says the Saints are known for keeping them or not.
As pointed out before - any Catholic can simply ignore the bible when it comes to the 2nd commandment and dream up some "any ol excuse will do" straw man. Even the Evangelicals can see this is something that has no validity - for getting around the Bible when it crosses the preference of man-made-tradition.
A point to which we get "dead silence" from those here at war against the TEN Commandments of God. (When they are not self-conflictedly arguing that NiNE of the TEN Commandments should be kept and all the fluff arguments do not apply to the nine)
But we cannot say that all evangelicals - or even all Baptists fail on that point...I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
===================================
I also point out that even you admitted that James 2 claims that to break (declare war against) ONE of the Ten Commandments it to break (declare war against) them all.
I also point out how this "war against the Commandments" idea is contrasted to KEEPING The Commandments and yet not being found perfectly sinless before one is able to honor and affirm those commandments with this example.
Essentially I am using "you" as "exhibit-A"
in Christ,
Bob -
Not one quote saying "Jesus gave the law so lost people could save themselves.
And we all know it.
Each time I post the scripture that speaks to the role of the Saints and the Law of God - you wish to "circle back" to the view of the LAW of God that the lost person has.
--
However my focus has been on the law from the POV of the saved saint as follows.
=================================== begin
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT][FONT="]According to Romans 8 and Romans 6 - the saint can choose to obey the Word of God - or be in rebellion against it - and lose salvation.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
Rev 14:12 "here is the perseverance of the SAINTS here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
The cotton-candy-fluff gaming of the texts above that insist that the saints be sinless before we can believe the Bible on the points listed does not even work for Baptists when they are telling Catholics that the 2nd commandment must be valid and must be obeyed.
And we all know it.
So obvious infact that these points are not lost on a number of Baptists so that they do not engage in pointless gaming or [FONT="]whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul. [/FONT]
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
=========================== end quote
in Christ,
Bob -
My how much "clarity" our Baptist friends have at such a point in time.
So why all this war against the Commandments of God in your post?
in Christ,
Bob -
and your wild claims about me claiming D.L Moody as a Saturday Sabbath preacher -- was fully debunked.
Here it is again.
Your post included this false accusation (one of many you make as it turns out).
.I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
===================================
The saints do not claim God's Law is "burdensome" but they SHOW by their obedience to God's Commandments that they do in fact LOVE God AND Love the people of God. 1John 5:1-4.
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3
-- DHK picks out a commandment of God and claims it to be "wayy" to burdensome to keep. Downright impossible according to DHK
Rom 8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
DHK and Steaver argue that they CANNOT keep the LAW of God no matter what Romans 8 says to the contrary.
"Here is the perseverance of the SAINTS, here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
-- DHK responds with the Bible contradicting idea that some of the Commandments are "AMORAL".
-- DHK responds that they cannot be kept no matter if the Bible says the Saints are known for keeping them or not.
As pointed out before - any Catholic can simply ignore the bible when it comes to the 2nd commandment and dream up some "any ol excuse will do" straw man. Even the Evangelicals can see this is something that has no validity - for getting around the Bible when it crosses the preference of man-made-tradition.
A point to which we get "dead silence" from those here at war against the TEN Commandments of God. (When they are not self-conflictedly arguing that NiNE of the TEN Commandments should be kept and all the fluff arguments do not apply to the nine)
But we cannot say that all evangelicals - or even all Baptists fail on that point...I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
in Christ,
Bob -
-
I never argue that rebellion against God will not get the saved person to be lost. The law can cause them to be lost.
But I never argue that the Law causes a lost person to be saved. Obviously you had no quote of such a thing from me - so you "bent one".
Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.
[FONT="]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT="]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]
Matt 6
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Your little trick of only paying a "tiny bit of attention to the details" and then snippet posting - does not work because the rest of us can see the details you are carefully omitting.
I don't know why you think that gaming the subject is so convincing for everyone. It will only work on a small group.
in Christ,
Bob
-
It's the same as one saying...... 'this road cannot save you, however, if you don't take it you cannot be saved'. This is exactly what you espouse.
Either the Law saves or it does not save. You are very confused in thinking that one starts with Grace and then is kept saved by obedience to the Law. Paul scolded those who were falling for this trick of satan (Gal5)
-
Steaver then tries to "equivocate" between the saved getting lost and the lost getting saved as if the Bible can be edited to make them the same thing.
The fact that the Matt 18 and Matt 6 issue on forgiveness revoked does not suit your man-made-tradition on OSAS should not be used to hijack the topic on the Ten commandments themselves.
Notice that you would not take such nonsense from a Catholic wanting to break the 2nd commandment and worship images in church.
'obviously.
When we tell the Catholic to keep the 2nd commandment we are not saying to the lost person "you don't need Christ just start keeping the 2nd commandment and you are saved".
The evangelicals, Baptists etc get this point easily.
But for some odd reason a few of them want to go to war against the Ten Commandments -- in all other contexts.
That brings us back to the texts on the Commandments of God.
in Christ,
Bob
-
My focus has been on the law from the POV of the saved saint as follows.
=================================== begin
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT][FONT="]According to Romans 8 and Romans 6 - the saint can choose to obey the Word of God - or be in rebellion against it - and lose salvation.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
Rev 14:12 "here is the perseverance of the SAINTS here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
The cotton-candy-fluff gaming of the texts above that insist that the saints be sinless before we can believe the Bible on the points listed does not even work for Baptists when they are telling Catholics that the 2nd commandment must be valid and must be obeyed.
And we all know it.
So obvious infact that these points are not lost on a number of Baptists so that they do not engage in pointless gaming or [FONT="]whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul. [/FONT]
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much. -
Your argument has failed and I think you actually know this but for some reason feel compelled to kick against the pricks. The only hope left for you on this issue lies somewhere between here and on the road to Damascus. -
Originally Posted by BobRyan
I never argue that rebellion against God will not get the saved person to be lost. The law can cause them to be lost.
But I never argue that the Law causes a lost person to be saved. Obviously you had no quote of such a thing from me - so you "bent one".
Matt 18 is another place where "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.
[FONT="]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT="]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]
Matt 6
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.
Your little trick of only paying a "tiny bit of attention to the details" and then snippet posting - does not work because the rest of us can see the details you are carefully omitting.
I don't know why you think that gaming the subject is so convincing for everyone. It will only work on a small group.
in the post above we see the Bible teaching on forgiveness revoked. it is not talking so much about how the lost become saved - as how the saved become lost.
your little trick of only paying a "tiny bit of attention to the details" and then snippet posting - does not work
So then you are not one of those evangelicals that think worshipping images matters ....
Ok well to each his own.
I happen to think the 2nd commandment matters - but here is probably another place where you and I differ.
Are you willing to pay enough attention to actual Bible details to answer a simple question?
How do you get OSAS to survive this "detail"--?
[FONT="]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
in Christ,
Bob
-
If you have no interest in OSAS and Matt 18 - what about the Ten Commandments and the way that the Bible talks about them. So then the "Actual Bible" not just your version of "gaming".
My focus has been on the law from the POV of the saved saint as follows.
=================================== begin
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT][FONT="]According to Romans 8 and Romans 6 - the saint can choose to obey the Word of God - or be in rebellion against it - and lose salvation.
[/FONT]
[FONT="]1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
Rev 14:12 "here is the perseverance of the SAINTS here are they that KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
The cotton-candy-fluff gaming of the texts above that insist that the saints be sinless before we can believe the Bible on the points listed does not even work for Baptists when they are telling Catholics that the 2nd commandment must be valid and must be obeyed.
And we all know it.
So obvious infact that these points are not lost on a number of Baptists so that they do not engage in pointless gaming or [FONT="]whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul. [/FONT]
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much. -
Debate does not consist of pulling quotes out of context--a mix of hodge-podge statements, and then stating that these were one's answers. That is deceit; lies; dishonesty. It can't, won't be tolerated.
Was that my exact response to your posting of the Scripture Rev.14:12? Is that what I responded with at that time, to that particular post?
If not you are being dishonest in a representation of the facts. The honest way to do this is give the URL where I said that to show me and others the context in which it was given. It was not a private conversation.
Even the Bible teaches that the law cannot be kept.
You have joined that Biblical teaching with a verse taken out of context in Revelation which speaks of a different dispensation or time period--that of the Tribulation Period. The entire teaching of that period of time is not in the period of grace but in judgment. Grace ended sometime before.
It is your regular copy and paste red herring reference to the Catholic Church which is not the topic of this thread. This along with the Sabbath are just another attempt to derail the thread and deflect attention off of your own accountability to the law.
Before you deny it, think carefully what the Bible says about these commands.
At least I admit that I am a sinner
Jesus came to die for sinners. It seems as if you still remain in your self-righteousness.
In fact most of it is a copy and paste job that can be found in a multitude of posts. It has already been answered. Much it is slander. -
You clearly need to have a talk with yourself.
Recall that my post was on the TEN Commandments as follows --
======================================
"Here is the perseverance of the SAINTS, here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
1 John 5:1-4 makes the same point.
1 John 2:3-6 makes the same point[FONT="]
[/FONT]
John 14:15 makes the same point
[FONT="]
Exodus 20:6 makes the same point.
1 Cor 7:19 makes the same point
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
John 14:15
"If you love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Ex 20:6
"to them that LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"
1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
As pointed out before - any Catholic can simply ignore the bible when it comes to the 2nd commandment and dream up some "any ol excuse will do" straw man. Even the Evangelicals can see this is something that has no validity - for getting around the Bible when it crosses the preference of man-made-tradition.
A point to which we get "dead silence" from those here at war against the TEN Commandments of God. (When they are not self-conflictedly arguing that NiNE of the TEN Commandments should be kept and all the fluff arguments do not apply to the nine)
But we cannot say that all evangelicals - or even all Baptists fail on that point...I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
===================================
I also point out that even you admitted that James 2 claims that to break (declare war against) ONE of the Ten Commandments it to break (declare war against) them all.
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God[/FONT][FONT="].
[/FONT][FONT="]According to Romans 8 and Romans 6 - the saint can choose to obey the Word of God - or be in rebellion against it - and lose salvation.[/FONT]
I have never doubted that problem for the lost. Paul affirms it himself.
Rev 14:12 fits perfectly with 1John 2:4-6 and 1John 5:1-4 and John 14:15 and is the same author on the same subject.
And we both know it.
in Christ,
Bob -
Secondly, it is during a period known as The Great Tribulation." I won't be there. The entire church won't be there. No believer will be there. The church will be raptured before this event will take place, which makes this point of yours completely moot.
Why? Because you are the SDA Pope!!
Sorry, that won't do. All of us reject your interpretation of these verses, and you know it. To post the references is futile.
Good Scripture. I like them also, and believe them. They are obviously in the Bible. Too bad you don't know their actual meaning because you quote them with no context, as per usual.
You ignore the Bible. My grandchildren can do just what you did--copy and paste; copy and paste; copy and paste. How difficult a task do you think that is? There are plenty of Catholics that do the same thing with just as great accuracy as you do. What makes you any better than they? You ignore scripture as much as they do, if not more.
"Any ol excuse will do" straw man is yours to apply to your own self.
The Sabbath is given to the nation of Israel (Exodus 31.) This is a biblical detail which you ignore. This is the "dead silence" we get from you.
1. Those who authored the Baptist confession do not keep the Sabbath.
2. The Westminster Confession does not teach one to keep the Sabbath.
3. Moody does not keep the Sabbath; in fact works on the Sabbath.
4. Messianic groups, according to Jews in Israel, desecrate the Sabbath, and are presently being kicked out of Israel.
--This is all slander on your part. Next time post it, and you will receive an infraction. I tire of it.
2. Moody made a direct disclaimer in his sermon. He specifically said that all of his beliefs had no similarity to any of the beliefs of the SDA. To say that he did is so libelous and slanderous that you need to be taken to task for it. You are attacking a good man's name.
Have you lost your salvation Bob?
[/FONT]
Now is the day of grace, a day when one has the opportunity to receive Christ as Saviour. When Christ comes for his own, that day will cease. God's wrath will be poured out against all the ungodly of the world. There will be no chance for those ungodly to trust Christ. It will be a day of judgement, not grace. That is not nonsense.
-
obedience as a result of being saved already, a fruit/by profuct, NOT to get saved!
You error is that you insist a sinner MUST do that to get/kept saved, bible teaches that we obey due to already been saved! -
Recall that my post was on the TEN Commandments as follows --
======================================
"Here is the perseverance of the SAINTS, here are they who KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12
1 John 5:1-4 makes the same point.
1 John 2:3-6 makes the same point[FONT="]
[/FONT]
John 14:15 makes the same point
[FONT="]
Exodus 20:6 makes the same point.
1 Cor 7:19 makes the same point
1 John 5
"Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:1-3[/FONT]
1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
John 14:15
"If you love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Ex 20:6
"to them that LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments"
1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"
As pointed out before - any Catholic can simply ignore the bible when it comes to the 2nd commandment and dream up some "any ol excuse will do" straw man. Even the Evangelicals can see this is something that has no validity - for getting around the Bible when it crosses the preference of man-made-tradition.
A point to which we get "dead silence" from those here at war against the TEN Commandments of God. (When they are not self-conflictedly arguing that NiNE of the TEN Commandments should be kept and all the fluff arguments do not apply to the nine)
But we cannot say that all evangelicals - or even all Baptists fail on that point...I don't think you will find any whining or complaining about these texts and these observance details in well known Sunday keeping source documents (Emphasis for DHK to note the detail so often skipped over each time I mention it) such as the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19 or the "Westminster Confession of Faith" Section 19 or in D.L. Moody's online sermon on the TEN Commandments - in his 4th Commandment section. Nor will you find the Seventh-day Baptists complaining about these texts - nor the Messianic Jewish groups I have personally visited, nor R.C Sproul.
No wonder D.L. Moody so directly addresses your "I down-sized Ten Commandments to Nine" idea in his sermon on the Ten commandments. No wonder you fear the mere quote of D.L. Moody's sermon so much.
===================================
I also point out that even you admitted that James 2 claims that to break (declare war against) ONE of the Ten Commandments it to break (declare war against) them all.
[FONT="]10 Commandments are[/FONT][FONT="] –[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Law of God” Neh 10:29[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Word of God” Mark 7:13[/FONT]
[FONT="]“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13[/FONT]
[FONT="]NT “Scripture” James 2:8[/FONT]
[FONT="]NT “Law” – James 2:9-11[/FONT]
[FONT="]NT Commandments[/FONT][FONT="] Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10[/FONT]
[FONT="]in Christ,[/FONT]
[FONT="]Bob
[/FONT] -
[FONT="]Rom 8[/FONT]
[FONT="]5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,[/FONT]
[FONT="]7 because [/FONT][FONT="]the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God;[/FONT][FONT="] for it [/FONT][FONT="]does not subject itself to the Law of God[/FONT][FONT="], for it [/FONT][FONT="]is not even able to do so[/FONT][FONT="],[/FONT]
[FONT="]8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.[/FONT]
Page 7 of 15