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The Bible condemns OSAS doctrine.. yet some folks still believe it

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 28, 2018.

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  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Uh no I am taking the text at face value. You add salvation to it. That is called Eisegesis.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

    Matt 18
    32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”


    Let's start with the obvious - there are no "repay all your debt to God yourself -- because that is what the Gospel is all about" sort of texts that or I have posted - because we both know they don't exist.
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    You know, scripture is always the basis for my doctrine. This arrogant post only works to divide and create animosity. since you do not have the maturity level to have a conversation on doctrine without such caustic posts I will pass and leave you in your misery.
     
  4. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Since this has not produced any response it is obvious the title to the thread is more like click bait than it is reality. Title is not debunked.
     
  5. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Ezekiel 18:24 NASB “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die."
    Righteousness does not automatically mean "saved" ... remember:

    Matthew 5:20 NASB "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven."
    The Pharisees had a righteousness that would not get them into the kingdom of heaven ... so too, the righteousness of the man in Ezekiel 18 who turns away.

    Second point, it was his righteous deeds that would not be remembered. However Jesus did not say "I don't remember any of those good works that you did in my name." Jesus said "I NEVER KNEW YOU!"

    So Ezekiel 18 has nothing to say about Matthew 7:23 and a Christian that has never been known by Christ is an absurd suggestion. Tares can LOOK like wheat for a little while, but a tare was never once a wheat.
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In Ezek 18 one group lives -- the other one dies.

    All the righteous live in Ezek 18
    All the wicked die.

    That "Truth" is only reflected in saved-vs-lost because in this world both the wicked and the righteous die.'

    Thus as Ezek 18:4 says "the soul that sins shall die"

    What is more the chapter makes it clear that this is the judgment of God - that man does not approve of
     
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Until you read the actual scriptures in the OP. It is in the "Bible details" that the doctrine stands or falls. Simply ignoring them or electing to "look at different texts instead" is not sound Bible foundation for doctrine.
     
  8. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    So what does that have to do with Matthew 7:23 and the silly claim that people who Jesus NEVER KNEW were somehow saved?

    So what does that have to do with Matthew 7:23 and the silly claim that people can be saved without Jesus and then loose their Jesus-free salvation?

    Prove it. Saying it doesn't make it so. The issue is the claim that people that JESUS NEVER KNEW are being treated as once saved. Where is salvation apart from Christ taught in scripture?

    Which again has no impact on Jesus claim "I never knew you" (Matthew 7:23) since Ezekiel says their "good deeds" will not be remembered because of their sins, not that God would not remember "them".
     
  9. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I have a question, although I have not read the entire thread yet. In John’s Gospel, Christ tells the apostles at the Last Supper to remain in his love. He adds that if we keep his commandments we will remain in his love. But he who does not remain in his love is "cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned" John 15:6. Now, if salvation cannot be lost, why would Jesus feel the need to tell anyone to remain in his love? It would be like locking a person in a closet and telling them to remain there. If they are unable to leave, it is senseless to ask them to remain.

    In my thinking Jesus told his disciples to remain in his love because just as we enter freely into a relationship with Christ, we are free to leave him.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    It sounds reasonable. But just for fun, try to find someone who chose to defy the will of God and succeeded?

    Could Saul have said 'No.' when he was laying on the ground, blind outside Damascus. Reread the story, does God sound like he was asking Paul or telling him?

    Moses clearly didn't want to go back to Egypt. So how did that end? Whose will was done?

    Jonah actively and openly refused to go to Ninevah to preach a warning. So in the end, did Jonah preach a warning in Ninevah?

    Jesus chose the twelve disciples and made a huge deal that he had lost none of those that the Father had given him ... except Judah (the son of perdition, and a devil) ... who we are told was only lost to fulfill scripture.

    So where are these people who tell God "No"?
    You would think that if everyone has a choice to quit at any time, then there should be examples in scripture.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Baptists, unlike Sda, based our theology upon Sola Scriptura!
    Jesus stated that he will keep secured forever ALL those he saves, was he a liar, or telling the truth?
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    John 6:37-40,
     
  13. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    I have said the following twice, but no one has debated it.

    I see a problem now that is twofold:

    1. You are elect or not, you have the Spirit of God indwelling you as an eternal deposit (Ephesians 1:14) or not, you are born again from above or not.

    2. Our wills are appealed to in the bible in order to act morally and to prove our salvation.

    Some have taken this to mean "Do everything as if it is all on me, and know it is all on God." I once read that in a conservative, literalist Study Bible. Could that argument be right?
     
  14. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All who are saved have been translated from the Kingdom of Satan into Kingdom of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit seals us forever!
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Deal with John 6:37-40!
     
  16. Wesley Briggman

    Wesley Briggman Well-Known Member
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  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

    Matt 18
    32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

    Romans 11
    19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

    1 Cor 6
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified

    You seem to be posting as if I am writing the Bible texts given above and am doing market research to see if I should include them in the Bible.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Choose the Bible - as your basis for doctrine

    Matt 18
    32 Then summoning him, his lord *said to him, ‘You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me. 33 Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?’ 34 And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him. 35 My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.”

    Romans 11
    19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

    1 Cor 6
    9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified



    Thank you for that contribution
     
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Here is a good thread to test that idea.
     
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