Actually I was raised Catholic and now I consider myself a non-labled Christian. But Catholics 100% believe in talking directly with God, they just also believe that the more people that can ask with them will have a better result. It is similar to asking your boss for a Christmas party, if only you ask he will say no, but if the whole office asks then he will probably say yes, especially if one of the people asking him is his mother. And of course they worship Jesus, to the highest degree. I have followed Jesus my whole life.
Also, the priest can not forgive a sin. Only God can forgive because only God knows what is in your heart. Basically it is like having an adviser, and telling him that you are struggling with this sin or that sin and then the priest can help to guide you, like guiding you to pray about this or that or guiding you to spend more time doing acts of charity or asking that you spend more time with your family depending on what your sin is.
I agree that Catholics tend to be "goofy" in a lot of their traditions and that is partly why I am no longer Catholic. Much of what they believe is antiquated tradition and not coming from the bible. But I assure you they are Christian and believe that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Saviour of all.
The Catholics are not lost
Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Darren, May 19, 2008.
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It is certainly possible for an individual Catholic to stumble upon saving faith.
But without a doubt it isnt the norm. The Catholic Church proclaims a false and non-saving gospel, hence its very difficult for a Catholic to find salvation....which is through an intimate relationship with Christ...not "sacraments"...by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
The Catholic Church condemns that truth.
Sadly,
Mike -
In the risen Christ
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Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God,
Jhn 3:36 He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." -
InXC
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The entire NT teaches that faith in Christ only is what saves.
Act 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." -
I am in agreement with you that the Catholic organization does not have the power to make a follower of Christ into an unsaved person.
However, I do not believe that just because someone is Catholic, that s/he will be saved. I also believe that the Catholic organization, with its emphasis on itself and on its own precepts, does not point people to Christ.
In the copies of Scripture that I read, to be a Christian is more than about portion/s of Sunday. Being a Christian is a daily following of Jesus Christ in one's own life.
If a person comes to Christ as Lord and Savior, and comes to follow His teachings, and simultaneously holds Catholic religious tenets, s/he is still a Christian. Romans 8:38b-9 assures Christians “neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (ESV). The Catholic organization is made of created materials and people, so I do not believe the Catholic organization has the power to make a Christian into an unsaved person. -
1 Corinthians 10:21 Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils.
Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Jesus said:
Matthew 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
The Catholic Church (I see that you called it an "organization") does not have the power to save anyone either....Salvation is in Jesus Christ ALONE (no works)...not in the Catholic Church. Acts 4:12 states this:
Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
If you claim to be saved and you are still holding on to the false teachings/tenets of the RCC, then your salvation isn't in Christ, it's in the RCC...and that's not biblical salvation. Romans 8:38b-39 are for those who are IN CHRIST...not those who still hang on to false teachings and proclaim themselves to be saved. The entire 8th chapter of Romans needs to be read in context....it was written to those who are ALREADY IN CHRIST...to the brethren...the saved. -
There are people who love to hate Catholicism and/or Catholics, and are going to think whatever they want. They hate Catholicism and/or Catholics so much that they wish anything less than hatred for Catholics was punishable by Hell. They will disregard any factual first-hand evidence about what Catholics believe and/or do, and will always prefer false accusations. They will quote Scriptures that do not even address the issues to make it look Scriptural to do these things too. Arguing with such persons is only a frustrating exercise in futility.
My remarks, from which you quoted only a small part, were for Darren. I know that the Vatican and its organization have no power regarding salvation yea or nay, and I know what the written Word of God teaches about salvation and how it relates to this matter. I will go with it. -
Agnus Die,
I posted...
And you said...
* 2ndly, I have shared multitudes of those scriptures specifically with you many times in the past, so why are you asking again?
* 3rdly, if I took the time to post them for you once again again I have... unfortunetly, and very sadly...no confidence that you would have any ability to *see* the truth of it.
So why should I waste my time?
The more profitable advice I could give you would be this:
Make the attitude of your prayers, concerning this topic, "Lord, open my eyes, that I might behold wonderful things from your scriptures and word"
I have found for 26 years now as a Spirit born person that beautiful things happen when a person asks God to perform that miracle for one of His people.
Mike -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Crabtownboy Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
You can't unless you throw out James' "Faith without works is dead." -
Need I quote chapter and verse for that? One who knows the Bible well should see that this is the main theme of the gospel. Chapter and verse won't convince one who is convinced otherwise.
Not until one can see that James is teaching that ones faith is justified by their works will they get over the faith+works heresy. -
A catholic is not lost because he is a catholic, a catholic is lost because he is born dead in sin. If he accepts catholic soteriology as his basis for salvation he only continues in his lostness.
Darren. The bellow statement of yours is a bit troubling to me because you completely left our the most important element of salvation.
Perhaps its my strong belief in God´s sovereignty in salvation that convinces me of this- but I believe that grace is the most important element of salvation and that is something that no man can achieve of himself. Hence catholic soteriology, which does present the idea of merited f grace, is not a biblical soteriology but rather "another gospel".
I strongly urge you to take another look at what the heart of the Gospel. -
Matt Black Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
I agree that we are saved by grace, but please explain the link between grace and faith as you see it and explain what you mean by the term 'faith'. BTW, 4His_glory, I think you'll find that Catholic soteriology does teach unmerited grace - why else for example would they baptise infants?
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