The Day of Christ.

[Craigbythesea]

Jesus Christ, who wrote the 10 commandments in stone

Ridiculous nonsense and a blatant attack upon the historical doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus did not write the Ten Commandments

Jesus did NOT tell us to keep His Father’s commandments (those found in the Old Testament); he told us to keep His commandments. Jesus never told anyone, anywhere to keep the Sabbath. Indeed, Jesus taught the precise opposite,

Matt. 12:1. At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
2. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!''
3. Then He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4. "how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
5. "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
6. "But I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
7. "But if you had known what this means, `I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.
8. "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.'' (NASB, 1995)

Mark 2:23. Now it happened that He went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; and as they went His disciples began to pluck the heads of grain.
24. And the Pharisees said to Him, "Look, why do they do what is not lawful on the Sabbath?''
25. But He said to them, "Have you never read what David did when he was in need and hungry, he and those with him:
26. "how he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and ate the showbread, which is not lawful to eat, except for the priests, and also gave some to those who were with him?''
27. And He said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.
28. "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.'' (NASB, 1995)

Luke 6:1. Now it happened on the second Sabbath after the first that He went through the grainfields. And His disciples plucked the heads of grain and ate them, rubbing them in their hands.
2. And some of the Pharisees said to them, "Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath?''
3. But Jesus answering them said, "Have you not even read this, what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4. "how he went into the house of God, took and ate the showbread, and also gave some to those who were with him, which is not lawful for any but the priests to eat?''
5. And He said to them, "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''
6. Now it happened on another Sabbath, also, that He entered the synagogue and taught. And a man was there whose right hand was withered.
7. And the scribes and Pharisees watched Him closely, whether He would heal on the Sabbath, that they might find an accusation against Him.
8. But He knew their thoughts, and said to the man who had the withered hand, "Arise and stand here.'' And he arose and stood.
9. Then Jesus said to them, "I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?''
10. And looking around at them all, He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand.'' And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other.
11. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus. (NASB, 1995)

Luke 13:10. Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.
11. And behold, there was a woman who had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bent over and could in no way raise herself up.
12. But when Jesus saw her, He called her to Him and said to her, "Woman, you are loosed from your infirmity.''
13. And He laid His hands on her, and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God.
14. But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath; and he said to the crowd, "There are six days on which men ought to work; therefore come and be healed on them, and not on the Sabbath day.''
15. The Lord then answered him and said, "Hypocrite! Does not each one of you on the Sabbath loose his ox or his donkey from the stall, and lead it away to water it?
16. "So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound think of it for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?''
17. And when He said these things, all His adversaries were put to shame; and all the multitude rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by Him. (NASB, 1995)

However, as late as 57 or 58 A.D., some Christians still thought that Christians were obligated to keep the Sabbath and other Holy days as commanded in the Old Testament. Therefore Paul wrote:

Rom. 14:4. Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5. One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7. For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8. For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
9. For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. (NASB, 1995)

Apparently, as late as 2004, there is still a pocket or two of “Baptists” that have not gotten the message . Well, folks, here is the message

, right from the Bible,

“…ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

 

[Ed Edwards]

Referring to 1 Cor 15:51-54 DeafPosttrib says:
"Also, the twinkling of the eyes -pretrib teaches that the rapture
will be quick and secert to the world without any expect or public.
Our twinkling of the eyes show us HOW quick of our body all shall
be changed into immortality."

It is as you say, the rapture may not be quick, but each person's
change will be quick. BTW, i still note that it is the postie
who brings the SECRET RAPTURE to the table each time. Get
back to discussing with me, Bro DPT. You are NOT discussing with
someone else who happened to write about the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection. But I will say this:

YOu sure did SMASH that secret rapture STRAWMAN!

 

[Ed Edwards]

DPT: " ... during 20th century -- 100 years
between from years 1900 to 1999 ... "

Fact (not opinion):
The 29th century began 01 Jan 1901
and ended 31 Dec 2000.
The "20" in 2000 is where the
20th Century get's it's "20".

The period specified: 1900-1999
is called "the 19 hundreds".
This nomenclature is due to the
fact some people can't seem to
remember people used to count
starting at "1".
Now we computer geeks start our
counting at "0"

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: " ... during 20th century
... millions and millions of saints were killed
out in the world by the persecutions ... "

This is a true fact. About 25 million
were killed in the 20th century
(compare to about 20 million Christian
martyrs in the centuries 1 through 19).

However, this fact has noting to do
with the Day of Christ, or rapture/tribulation
timing.

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: "Keep in mind, Matt 13:28-30 tell us, both wheat and tare are growing together till the harvest time come then gathering the tares and to separate them from the wheat. This parable apply to the present world, both believers(wheat) and unbelievers(tares) are growing together in the world in THIS age(time or period). When the end of the age come at Lord's coming, all unbelievers shall be gathering and separate from the believers, cast them into the everlasting fire."

Amen, Brother DeafPosttrib -- Preach it!

However, this has noting to do with
the matters at hand:
the meaning of "Day of Christ" and
the relative timing of the rapture
and tribulation period wrath judgments.

Elsewhere in the Bible we find that
the collection of the wheat and the tares
is each side of a 7-year Day,
which day is called variously:
the Day of the Lord,
the tribulation,
the tribulation period wrath judgements,
etc.

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: "1 Thess 4:17 says, 'Then we which are alive and REMAIN..." Remain means being survived.
Paul tells us, There are several or many Christians shall be survived at the time of Christ's coming."

Amen, Brother DeafPosttrib -- Preach it

But Paul's statement has NOTHING
to do with the matter at hand:
the meaning of "day of Christ" and
the relative timewise appearance
of the rapture/resurrection and the
tribulation period wrath judgements.

 

[Ed Edwards]

DeafPosttrib: "Very Simple".

Very incomplete.
When one omits details, one
can look simple. Yet something
is lost.

I sumarize the present and future
like this:
---------------------------
Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth
---------------------------

You could sumarize the present and future like this:
---------------------------
Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: <-- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: <-- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom <-- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth
---------------------------

Here is the full wealth of information
(only in summary format):
---------------------------
Expanded pretrib timeline:

0. church age continues

1. rapture/resurrection

2. The 7-year Tribulation Period

2a. Starting events
2a1. The seven year AC/Israel treaty

2b. the first half (3.5years) - the Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2b1. The Seal Judgments (Revelation 6)
2b2. Rise of the Antichrist
2b3. Ten nation confederacy (Daniel 2:42-44;
---- Daniel 7:7,24; Rev 12:3; Rev 17:12,16)
2b4. The ministry of Elijah (Rev 11:3, Malachi 4:5,6)
2b5. Ministry of the 144,000 Israeli (Rev 7)
2b6. The Trumpet judgements/wrath (Rev 8-9)
2b7. The false church (ecclesiastical Babylon)
----- (Revelation 17:1-6)

2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8)
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18)
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation
----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins
----- (Rev 12:1-6)

2d. the second half (3.5years) - the Great Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2d1. the Bowl Judgments/wrath (Rev 16)
2d2. protection of the Jewish Remnant
---- (Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:16; Revelation 12:6,14)
2d3. Armageddon (these items are in time sequence):

2d3a. - assembling the allies of AC
------- (Rev 16:12-16)
2d3b. - destruction of Babylon
------- (Isaiah 13; Jeremiah 50-51; Revelation 18)
2d3c. - Fall of Jerusalem
------- (Micah 4:11-5:1; Zachariah 12:1-9; 14:1,2)
2d3d. - Armies of AC at Bozrah (Jeremiah 49:13,14)
2d3e. - Conversion of Israel complete
------- (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27)

(2e the end of the Trib, which is the Second Advent
---- of Jesus to defeat the AC and set up the MK)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
3a. postrib gathering and resurrection of the trib saints
3b. antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire
- 19:20-22!
3c. The Judgment of the Nations= Matthew 25:31-46

4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom

5. Satan loosed for a little season to deceive the Nations - Revelation 20:7-8!

6. The final battle of God and Magog! - Revelation 20:8-9!

7. Satan cast into the lake of Fire. - Revelation 20:10!

8. The Great White Throne of Judgment! - Revelation 20:11-15!

9.new heaven & new earth - 2 Peter 3:10

10. The Eternal Kingdom! The New Heavens and New Earth
and the New Jerusalem! - Revelation 21:1-3!
---------------------------

Yet you say that your timeline is "simple"
when really it lacks most of the detail.

You read 2 Peter 3:10 (HCSB):
But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief; on that day the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.

Where Day of the Lord is 1007 years long
including both the tribulation period
wrath judgements and the 1,000
year millinnial reign of Jesus upon
the throne of David.

You read 2 Peter 3:10 and exclude the
whole physical millinnial reign
and have to exclude most of Revelation
chapter 20. In fact, 2 Peter 3:10
does not give the details of
"Day of the Lord" through end of the world,
but sumarizes them to make the main
point: we aught to live right on
this world in this age for things will
change.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Craigbythesea:
Well, folks, here is the message

, right from the Bible,

“…ye are not under the law, but under grace.”

Amen, Brother Craigbythesea -- Preach it!

 

[brumleyj]

did you read foxes of martyr book ? telling us happening during early chruch to now we still facing presuction never stop until Christ come and will stop presuction at end of the age. i dont have time to do today

ed edward your logically is too much according col 2:8

i will replay it later

brumleyj
ps27:1

 

[Ed Edwards]

Colossians 2:1-8 (HCSB):

I lwant you to know how much I have agonized for you and for
the church at Laodicea, and for many other friends who have
never known me personally.
2 My goal is that they will be encouraged and knit together
by strong ties of love. I want them to have full confidence because
they have complete understanding of God's secret plan, which
is Christ himself.
3 In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
4 I am telling you this so that no one will be able to deceive
you with persuasive arguments.
5 For though I am far away from you, my heart is with you.
And I am very happy because you are living as
you should and because of your strong faith in Christ.
6 And now, just as you accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord,
you must continue to live in obedience to him.
7 Let your roots grow down into him and draw up nourishment from him,
so you will grow in faith,
strong and vigorous in the truth you were taught.
Let your lives overflow with thanksgiving for all he has done.
8 Don't let anyone lead you astray with empty philosophy
and high-sounding nonsense that come from human thinking
and from the evil powers of this world,
and not from Christ.
9 For in Christ the fullness of God lives in a human body,

I note the truth you were taught first was pretribulation rapture/resurrection.

Nobody taught me my pretribulation since my pastor in 1967-1969.
NObody but the Holy Spirit.
Surely i didn't get taught by no millionare fiction book writers.

Recommend you check with your own source and see if that
soure is the "empty philosophy and high-sounding nonsense that
come from human thinking and the evil powers of this world.
What i have said came from personal one-on-one conversation with
Jesus, the Christ by way of the Holy Spirit. The fact that
i can back each scripture with my teaching and each teaching
with the scripture shows that what i teach is solid fact.
Others who feel called to rebuke me on every teaching and never
say "Amen, Brother Ed -- Preach it" -- whose side are they on?
Can everything that i write be wrong? I don't think so.
Can everything that I write be right? Probably not, the
written word of God is correct.

So unless you feel stongly called to dis me at the personal level,
you best not struggle to hard with me, your shield may be weak?

 

[Craigbythesea]

Ed Edwards comment,

Fact (not opinion):
The 29th century began 01 Jan 1901 and ended 31 Dec 2000.

is just as true as his Eschatology. I knew that pre-tribbers couldn't count worth a hill of beans, but this is really, really bad.

Ed,

Fact (not opinion):

Your statement is off by 1,000 years!

 

[postrib]

Greetings in Jesus' name,

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . THE CHURCH AGE . . ."

The Bible doesn't refer to a church age because the church will be "throughout all ages" (Ephesians 3:21). Again, Christians who will live to enter into the tribulation will be members of the church, for they (like other Christians) will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13). The church is made up of all Christians of all time, whether Jew or Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there's only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23).

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . Tribulation Period Wrath . . ."

Again, the church will go through the tribulation (Revelation 7:14; 13:10; 14:12-13) without being appointed to wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9; 1:10), for no one in heaven calls the seals (Revelation 6) or trumpets (Revelation 8-9) of the tribulation wrath. They only call the vials of the tribulation (Revelation 16) wrath, and none of the vials will be directed against the believers who will be on the earth (Revelation 16:15).

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . Revelation 7:14 refers to those who have 'come out of the great tribulation' by being raptured/resurrected before the tribulation . . ."

Actually, it says the great multitude "came out of great tribulation" (Revelation 7:14) because they'd entered into it. They could have entered heaven by dying in the seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6).

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . Revelation 14:9-11 is a pronouncement of the judgement to come at the end of the tribulation . . ."

Revelation 14:9-11 isn't referring to the temporary wrath of the seven vials (Revelation 16), or to the temporary wrath of the second coming (Revelation 19:15), but to the everlasting wrath of the lake of fire after the millennium (Revelation 20:15) in which those who take the mark will be tormented "forever and ever" (Revelation 14:11; Matthew 25:41).

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . Revelation 14:12-13 flash back . . ."

Actually, Revelation 14:12-13 isn't a flashback. Revelation 14:9-13 is a warning and a promised blessing for those who will be on the earth during the reign of the Antichrist.

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . to the time when John saw the revelation. Otherwise, if Revelation 14:13 'blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on' would refer only to those saved person who died in the bowl wrath judgements. Those who died in the Lord during the 7 seals and 7 trumpets would not be blessed . . ."

Revelation 14:13 doesn't mean that those believers who died before the reign of the Antichrist aren't blessed, just as it doesn't mean that those believers who died before the time the Apostle John saw the Revelation aren't blessed.

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . doesn't this dying of those in Christ conflict with the whole idea that God protects them
in the wilderness . . ."

There is no conflict. Some saints will be physically protected from Satan (Revelation 12:14) and the Antichrist, while other saints will be imprisoned and killed (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13), many by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4). This is how it was during the first-century persecution of the church: only some saints were protected (e.g. Revelation 3:10) while other saints were imprisoned and killed (e.g. Revelation 2:10), many, like the Apostle Paul, by being beheaded.

From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . dispensationalism . . ."

There's a false dispensationalism which says that the church and Israel are mutually exclusive. The scriptures nowhere teach this; it's a mistaken ecclesiology that was devised in an attempt to support the mistaken eschatology of a pre-trib rapture.

Believing Gentiles have become Abraham's seed and heirs (Galatians 3:28-29), fellow heirs and of the same body as believing Israel (Ephesians 3:6), grafted into the tree of believing Israel (Romans 11:17). Believing Gentiles are no longer aliens to the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise made to Israel, but are now fellow citizens with believing Israel (Ephesians 2:12-19).

Believing Jews have always been part of the tree of believing Israel, indeed they're its original branches, for only "some" of them have been broken off (Romans 11:17); the church and "the Jews" (or Israel) have never been mutually exclusive, for all believing Jews and Gentiles have always been baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13); believers such as Peter and Paul and Barnabas are all Apostles of the church and Jews (or Israel) at the same time (Romans 11:1; Galatians 2:13-15; Acts 22:3; Acts 21:39); Aquila and Apollos are members of the church and Jews at the same time (Acts 18:2; Acts 18:24); the early church included thousands of Jews who were believers (Acts 21:20); the church still today includes a great many believing Jews.

The Apostle Paul said that in the "dispensation" of the fullness of times Christ might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth (Ephesians 1:10), and this fullness of times has already come (Colossians 1:20; Galatians 4:4), for all believing Jews and Gentiles have already been made into one new man, one commonwealth of believing Israel (Ephesians 2:12-19), one fold with one Shepherd (John 10:16), baptized by one Spirit into one body (1 Corinthians 12:13), just as all believing Jews and Gentiles will be gathered together from heaven and earth at Christ's second coming (Mark 13:27). Believing Israel is included in the bride of Christ (Revelation 21:9-12); New Jerusalem is the mother of us all (Galatians 4:26).

From the post in this thread made on June 14, 2004 08:00 AM EDT:
". . . the Jewish Israeli elect saints . . ."

Again, Christians who will live to enter into the tribulation will be from all nations (Revelation 7:9-14), not just physical Israel, and there are no Christians outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-6).

From the post in this thread made on June 14, 2004 08:00 AM EDT:
". . . the examples of Noah . . . and of Lot . . ."

Just as Noah and Lot weren't raptured into heaven before God's wrath in the flood or against Sodom, so the church won't be raptured into heaven before God's wrath in the seven vials (Revelation 16). Instead, Jesus promises a blessing to the faithful saints who are still on the earth during the sixth vial because by that time He still hasn't yet come as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Before the vials of wrath are poured out, faithful saints could be called by God to shut themselves in protected places on the earth which had been prepared beforehand (Isaiah 26:20-21), just like Noah was called to shut himself in the ark prepared before the flood (Genesis 7:1).

From the post in this thread made on June 14, 2004 08:00 AM EDT:
". . . the Bible carefully teaches pretribulation rapture . . ."

Actually, the Bible nowhere teaches a pretribulation rapture.

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . the age of the gentiles . . ."

The times of the Gentiles won't be fulfilled before the tribulation because Luke 21:24 says Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and Revelation 11:2 says Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles during the tribulation.

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . wedding of the Lamb . . ."

No scripture says that the marriage of the Lamb will be before or during the tribulation, or in the third heaven. At the second coming (Revelation 19), before He begins to fight Armageddon, Jesus will first gather together the church from heaven and earth (Mark 13:27; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-15) into the clouds for the marriage (Revelation 19:7), after which the church will mount white horses and follow Him down as He fights the armies that gathered at Armageddon (Revelation 19:14-21).

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . What glory is there in dragging into the Tribulation? . . ."

We as Christians glory in tribulations (Romans 5:3).

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . falling away . . ."

The Greek word apostasia (Strong's #646) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 refers to a falling away, or departure, from the faith, for Strong's Greek Dictionary defines apostasia as a "defection from truth," "apostasy." The Apostle Paul foretells the same "departure from the faith" in 1 Timothy 4:1.

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . the restrainer . . ."

The restrainer who's removed before the Antichrist is revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:7-8) can't be the church because Christians will be persecuted by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13), no Christians are outside the church (Ephesians 4:4-5), and Jesus' coming (parousia) to gather together the church will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8).

From the post in this thread made on June 15, 2004 07:52 AM EDT:
". . . the wedding supper of the Lamb will take place in heaven as the Tribulation takes place on earth . . ."

The marriage supper of the Lamb won't be during the tribulation, or in heaven. It isn't mentioned until after the third and final stage of the tribulation, the seven vials, is finished (Revelation 16), and it's mentioned at that time (Revelation 19:9) as an event yet to happen. It will happen on the earth after Christ fights the armies that gathered at Armageddon (Revelation 19:17; Isaiah 25:6-9). The birds will eat the carrion on the battlefield (Revelation 19:17-21) while the saints (Revelation 19:9) will eat "a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow" in Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9). It says that Jesus "will swallow up death in victory" in Isaiah 25:8 because Isaiah 25:6-9 will be the celebration of the just-completed second coming (Isaiah 25:9) and rapture/resurrection where "death is swallowed up in victory" (1 Corinthians 15:54).

From the post in this thread made on June 16, 2004 10:09 AM EDT:
". . . the Day of the Lord . . ."

Again, the day of the Lord isn't the tribulation, but will begin at the second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8). In 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, the Apostle Paul says that our gathering together to Christ at His second "coming" (verse 1) or "the day of Christ (Lord)" (verse 2) can't come until after the apostasy and after the man of lawlessness is revealed (verse 3), for it must destroy him (verse 8). Jesus had referred to this same coming and gathering together in Matthew 24:29-31, which He said would be "immediately after the tribulation." Revelation 7:14; 13:10; 14:12-13 says that we Christians will be here during the tribulation, and that we'll need patience and faith during that time.

-

May the Lord Jesus Christ reveal to us the truth regarding these matters.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Jun 7, 2:45AM EDT:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the post in this thread by Ed Edwards made on June 03, 2004 07:47 AM EDT:
". . . Church age . . . "
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Bible doesn't refer to a church age because the church will be "throughout all ages" (Ephesians 3:21). The church is made up of all Christians of all time, whether Jew or Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there's only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23). Christians who will live to enter into the tribulation will be members of the church, for they (like other Christians) will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13).

Jun 17, 5:35 EDT:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From the post in this thread made on June 11, 2004 11:00 PM EDT:
". . . THE CHURCH AGE . . ."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Bible doesn't refer to a church age because the church will be "throughout all ages" (Ephesians 3:21). Again, Christians who will live to enter into the tribulation will be members of the church, for they (like other Christians) will have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14), will have the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12), and will die in the Lord (Revelation 14:13). The church is made up of all Christians of all time, whether Jew or Gentile (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there's only one faith, and only one body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23).

It is a strange debating technique,
bleating like a sheep.
In fact

it is not baaaaaaahd!

I have debated each individual point in his oft repeated reply.
He looks like he is quoting scripture to support ideas.
In fact, he is mentioning scriptures in conjunction with
expressing his ideas. For example Ephesians 3:21 does say
someing about the church throughout all ages. The idea that
the Bible does not refer to specifically the words "church age"
is also true. But the church age concept is taught in
the Bible (as i argue in length above). Why cannot this poster
refute my individual points instead of bleating like a sheep?

By denying my term "church age", this poster is say he doesn't allow
me to talk about what i want to talk about. He would also deny
you other terms that are not specifically in the Bible like
Trinity and rapture?

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

I am using internet at the library, because my computer still have problem. I do not have time to reply back to you.

But, I would like to telling you something about 'church age'. Bible never use the label name -'church age' anywhere in the Bible.

Age means period or time.

The definition of 'church' means God's people as saints. Church already there long time before Pentacost Day begun. All Old Testament saints were God's church, these whosoever have faith in Christ, they are belong to Christ's same as we as New Testament saints have faith in Christ.

Also, church means called out, Abraham is the part of the Church, because he was called out by God by the faith in Genesis chapter 12.

Church, itself never end throughout all ages, church is with the Lord forever and ever, that mean, all saints always be with the Lord forever and ever.

Even through great tribulation period, include Christ's coming, and will always with the Lord forever. Church will reign with Christ on new earth froever and ever without end.

There is no difficult to read in 2 Thess. 2:1-8, no excuse for any Christians who trying to twist or avoid this passage. Apostle Paul clearly telling us, that our gathering together will NOT come till we shall see apostasy first and the revealed of Antichrist. Cannot you read 2 Thess 2:1-3 very clear?

All Greek dictionaries, Greek translation of 'falling away' never support the idea meaning of rapture. Suppose, a teacher saying 'falling away' means rapture, then, teacher teaching on it is not correct with the grammar or sentence.

Why? because if suppose a teacher saying, 'falling away' is rapture, then, there is TWO raptures of 2 Thess 2:3, HUH??? Why does I saying there is TWO raptures of 2 Thess 2:3?

Because, 'DAY shall not come...' 'DAY' speak of rapture, many Christians know that. We cannot twist verse 3 in a strange interpreting. We have to accept what Apostle Paul saying, agree with him.

Paul telling us, do not let any person deceive us of any teaching or rumours about the timing of Christ's coming, he said, day of Christ/gathering together shall NOT come till we shall see apostasy comes first(we already see apostasy everywhere right now), and we shall see the revealed of Antichrist.

Church shall face Antichrist first before Christ comes. Rev. 13:7,10 tell us, Antichrist shall persecute against Christians. Believe what Rev. 13:7,10 saying, accept it.

You cannot argue or twist what God's Word saying. Accept and believe what God's Word saying.

I hope my computer will be fixed next week, so I will have lot of time to reply back to you. I am so behind many things as what you replied to me in several topics in baptist theology. When my computer is fixed, I will have lot of things to catch up to reply back to you with scriptures.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!