1 Peter 2::7-8
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do.
The Day TULIP Died
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, May 8, 2022.
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How about post#102 then?
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Yep, that's another that people read via their presuppositions rather than allowing Scripture to stand on its own.
Scripture says (Matthew 20:28): " just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
How is that read - "and to give His life a ransom for many” or "and to give His life in place of many”? -
The part in red looks like an addition to Scripture. What translation are you using?
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World, universal, is fine. Whoever believes is limiting to those who are born again and thus believe. We find this truth in the context of the chapter.
Jon, be honest and admit that your reading of books, outside of scripture, have influenced your thinking so you interpret scripture from the bias of others, not the exegesis of the passage. -
he seems though to not sees things as the bible describes how God sees and views this issue!
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Again, how so? You seem keen on making unfounded claims about other people but less apt to defend your claims.
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he is guilty of doing what he sees Calvinists as doing, reading our bias and :philosophy" into the scriptures!
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Silverhair Well-Known MemberThey would only be false if they were not true. Your theology wants to restrict what God can do, therefore it is not a false claim.
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Does the Bible state to us that all mankind deserve to be saved?
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Well... that's a copout. I use ESV.
Peter expresses the Sovereignty of God in choosing and keeping in chapter 1. In chapter 2 he harkens to Jesus comments in Luke 20 and provides these verses that reflect the Sovereignty of God in those who don't believe. -
The Reformers did not see that as an either/or choice.
- God desires all men to be saved. (1 Timothy 2)
- Men love darkness and do not come to the light. (John 3)
- The Father draws to the Son those that will be saved. (John 6)
- God foreknew those whom He would predestine, call justify and glorify. (Romans 8)
God desires all men to be saved AND only a pre-selected group will be saved. (Luke 13:34 and Romans 9:21-24) -
I do not understand why you believe this.
Why don't you admit that your theology is a result of studying Reformed theology over Scripture?
I am always open to revisit my positions. BUT only via Scripture (what is written in God's Word). I do not put much stock in your books insofar as what you (or Sproul, Knox, Owen, etc ) believes is taught by Scripture.
If you would-could read the Bible without adding to it I think that you may find it makes sense on its own, apart from the additions you make. -
Silverhair Well-Known MemberAustin your philosophy comes through when you say "Whoever believes is limiting to those who are born again and thus believe." You want people saved before they even believe, but that is not what the bible says is it.
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Provide Scripture and we can discuss that. I do not care what your books say the Bible teaches. I care about what God has said (about "what is written").
Stop relying on extra-biblical authors and let's discuss Scripture itself. -
Reformed1689 Well-Known MemberHow do you get "your theology wants to restrict what God can do"? That's nonsense. We claim that God has PUT HIS OWN RESTRICTIONS. Not on what he CAN do but what he DOES AND WILL do.
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Reformed1689 Well-Known MemberAnd again you seem to equate born again with conversion. Regeneration and Conversion are not the same thing.
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Does the Bible say ANYBODY deserves to be saved?
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Reformed1689 Well-Known MemberIn the same token, we don't really care what you say, which is what this thread is really about.
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WHOEVER BELIEVES.
Nature of man or gift of God?
Therein lies the heart of the issue.
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