WinMan I am a follower of Christ and thats exactly what I am. When you get to Heaven will Jesus ask if you were a Calvinist or an Arminian? You seem to think that He will.
The Doctrine of Total Depravity
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by evangelist6589, Aug 20, 2013.
Page 2 of 2
-
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Then it all changed when I read Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God by JI Packer. It also changed when I started listening to Way of the Master, and reading books from Reformed such as John MacArthur, Washer, Piper, RC Sproul and the like. I admit I do not have it all together and did not fully comprehend everything at BJU. But frankly BJU oftened stayed out of these kinds of arguments and debates and for good reason. I know that Reformed were in the minority at BJU but they were there. I know that I was first introduced to Way of the Master there by a student, but the program was heavily frowned upon there, but I think so not because of theology, but because of issues of separation which BJU preaches to the core.
Once again I will say that I lean more Calvinist than Arminian and so I may be more Calvinistic like a Erwin Lutzer or a David Jeremiah. But then again I tend to agree more with John MacArthur, Ray Comort, and Paul Washer in most areas over Lutzer, and Jeremiah, so I definitely lean more Reformed.
Winman thinks that one needs to believe with 100% of Reformed to be one and this is false. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Can you explain Pelagianism please? This is something you have not done. Nevermind I found an article. Well this seems to be the doctrine that Norm Geisler may be teaching in his book. -
To say you can reject Unconditional Election and still be a Calvinist is like saying you can reject Jesus Christ and still be a Christian. You can't do it.
Calvinists believe in "monergism", that salvation is 100% of God. You are so depraved you cannot possibly choose to believe in God, therefore God must choose you and regenerate you before you have this choice. Therefore his choice is not based upon the condition that you believed.
Non-Cals or Arminians believe in "synergism". We believe that men are indeed sinful, yet we retain the ability to choose to believe in Christ or not. Many non-Cals or Arminians believe God chooses whom he foresees in his foreknowledge who will believe in time. This is what you claimed you believed in another post.
Calvinists do not believe we choose God as you believe. They believe that is absolutely impossible, you are too depraved to do so, therefore God cannot possibly choose you according to this condition.
You can insist that you can reject Unconditional Election and are still a Calvinist, but you are fooling yourself, such a thing is not possible. If you reject Unconditional Election, then you are NOT a Calvinist or Reformed. -
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Then I believe in unconditional election but do not fully understand how ti works. I read a chapter on the doctrine from a Macarthur book, and also from a David Jeremiah book where he clearly said that God grants the new birth and they cannot choose it for themselves. This seems so different than what Norm Geisler taught in his book Chosen but free. -
It is different! If Norm Geisler believes man retains the ability to choose Jesus, then he cannot truly be a Calvinist. The Calvinist believes God must first choose you unconditionally and regenerate you before you can have the will, desire, or ability to believe. You simply cannot believe in this system.
If Unconditonal Election is true, then only those whom God has chosen can be saved, all those whom God passes over will be lost and there is nothing they can do about it. In fact, they will never desire to be saved if this doctrine is true.
Many Calvinists reject the idea that God also chooses to reprobate those whom he passes over, but Calvin himself said this is nonsense.
Is this what you believe about God?
You really can't be a 4 point Calvinist.
http://www.banneroftruth.org/pages/articles/article_detail.php?416 -
By the way, Norm Geisler himself denies that he is a 5 point Calvinist. Watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPpkSiO1Ci4 -
Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
just keep serving God and studying.Once you see it, all the pieces fit together just fine.....there is much to study.
It is not like signing up for a sports team. Study so you can more faithfully serve God....the Spirit is already opening much truth to you...it will continue to grow in you!
-
evangelist6589 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
-
-
Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Page 2 of 2