The Elect are Manifested in Repentance and Faith and Good works.

[Brightfame52]

Matthew 13 and Matthew 23.

To repeat:
Here a verse is cited with the implication that no lost person ever understands the gospel, but Matthew 13 teaches soils #2, 3 and 4 did understand the gospel to a degree and sought God. Then, Matthew 23:13 has lost people seeking God even though "dead" in sin. So Romans 3:11 indicates everyone does not understand or seek God all the time or when sinning.​

Those that are lost, the gospel is hid from them, and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

And the natural man who is born under sin Rom 3:9-11

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They dont seek God nor understand God, not the True God.

 

[Van]

He received it naturally, not with spiritual understanding like soil #3 who received it with a good regenerated heart and bare fruit like faith Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

So the good soil is the only one that receives the Gospel and understand it and is converted.

The other received it naturally and superficially and without understanding spiritually.

So it still stands, man naturally not only seeks God, nor does he understand God spiritually. In fact the word for understandeth in Matt 13:23

its the same word for understand in Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

But notice Jesus didnt say the one who received it with joy understood it, because he wasnt regenerated. Jesus said he had a stony heart, thats a hard heart.

So men not born again can sometimes with their natural reason agree with the Truths of the Gospel, but it falls short of spiritual conversion, and sooner or later they shall fall away.

You made up "not with spiritual understanding," Nothing in scripture supports that fiction. Since Jesus said the people of Matthew 23:13 were actually entering the kingdom, your fiction is shown to be fiction.

The forth soil of Matthew 13 produced "righteous faith" as credited by God. Thus these persons are transferred into Christ. Unless a person abides in Christ and Christ in them, they cannot produce good fruit. Nothing in scripture supports the false claim they were already in Christ before they heard the gospel message.

 

[Van]

Those that are lost, the gospel is hid from them, and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4

And the natural man who is born under sin Rom 3:9-11

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

They dont seek God nor understand God, not the True God.

LOL, still not addressing the fact of Matthew 23:13, where lost individuals were entering the spiritual kingdom. Therefore all this fiction about being unable to understand any spiritual thing is unbiblical.

 

[Brightfame52]

You made up "not with spiritual understanding," Nothing in scripture supports that fiction. Since Jesus said the people of Matthew 23:13 were actually entering the kingdom, your fiction is shown to be fiction.

The forth soil of Matthew 13 produced "righteous faith" as credited by God. Thus these persons are transferred into Christ. Unless a person abides in Christ and Christ in them, they cannot produce good fruit. Nothing in scripture supports the false claim they were already in Christ before they heard the gospel message.

Sorry, thats the crux of the matter, man naturally has no spiritual understanding 1 Cor 2:14 because truth from God is spiritual and needs to be spiritually discerned.

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL, still not addressing the fact of Matthew 23:13, where lost individuals were entering the spiritual kingdom. Therefore all this fiction about being unable to understand any spiritual thing is unbiblical.

Again, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, their minds are blinded and they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now as I told you previously lost men can and often do naturally understand the Gospel Truths, but unfortunately that doesnt count as Spiritually understanding, its only then a spiritual conversion occurs.

 

[Van]

Sorry, thats the crux of the matter, man naturally has no spiritual understanding 1 Cor 2:14 because truth from God is spiritual and needs to be spiritually discerned.

Yet again, Brightfame52 rewrites scripture according to his or her fictitious doctrine. Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 say people in their fallen natural state have no "spiritual understanding?" Nope, of course not. It says "no understanding of "the things of the Spirit."
Does it say "some of the things of the Spirit or all the things of the Spirit?" Nope, so the Sect Brightfame52 apparently listens to has sold Brightfame52, and many others a biblical rewrite.

 

[Van]

Again, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, their minds are blinded and they believe not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now as I told you previously lost men can and often do naturally understand the Gospel Truths, but unfortunately that doesnt count as Spiritually understanding, its only then a spiritual conversion occurs.

Already addressed in this thread! See post # 103.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yet again, Brightfame52 rewrites scripture according to his or her fictitious doctrine. Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 say people in their fallen natural state have no "spiritual understanding?" Nope, of course not. It says "no understanding of "the things of the Spirit."
Does it say "some of the things of the Spirit or all the things of the Spirit?" Nope, so the Sect Brightfame52 apparently listens to has sold Brightfame52, and many others a biblical rewrite.

Its simple, man by nature we are natural, and the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God because they must be spiritually discerned, but the natural man doesnt have the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Brightfame52]

Already addressed in this thread! See post # 103.

And I have already addressed. The lost have the Gospel hid from them, and thats that.

 

[Van]

Its simple, man by nature we are natural, and the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God because they must be spiritually discerned, but the natural man doesnt have the Spirit 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 say people in their fallen natural state have no "spiritual understanding?" Nope, of course not. It says "no understanding of "the things of the Spirit."
Does it say "some of the things of the Spirit or all the things of the Spirit?" Nope, so the Sect Brightfame52 apparently listens to has sold Brightfame52, and many others a biblical rewrite.

 

[Van]

And I have already addressed. The lost have the Gospel hid from them, and thats that.

LOL the people of Matthew 23:13 were "entering" the kingdom" and Brightfame52 says they were not because they had no spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk. Utter nonsense.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Matthew 23:13. "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in."
If the scribes and pharisees can actually prevent people from entering the kingdom, then they are stronger than God, since it is they rather than He who control entrance. What is actually happening is that they are trying to keep people out of the kingdom. The best example of this is the case of the man born blind in John 9. Did the Pharisees 'allow' him to enter the kingdom? Not at all! They tried everything from argument to abuse to excommunication to keep the man out of the kingdom, but they did not succeed because God, not man, is sovereign in such matters. The Lord Jesus found him, revealed Himself to him, and he believed (John 9:38).
And so it was in the Roman Empire and so it was at the Reformation; the Roman authorities did not allow their subjects to become Christians and fed them to the lions when they did so. The Church of Rome tortured and burned those who wished to become Christians, but still God's kingdom grew. And so it is today. Whether it is the Ayatollahs in Iran, the Hindus in India or the Communists in China, none of them 'allow' their people to enter the kingdom of heaven, yet the kingdom still grows in those very countries.
"My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all [including the scribes and Pharisees] ; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."

 

[Brightfame52]

Does 1 Corinthians 2:14 say people in their fallen natural state have no "spiritual understanding?" Nope, of course not. It says "no understanding of "the things of the Spirit."
Does it say "some of the things of the Spirit or all the things of the Spirit?" Nope, so the Sect Brightfame52 apparently listens to has sold Brightfame52, and many others a biblical rewrite.

1 Cor 2:14 says the natural man cannot understand Spiritual things of God, like the Gospel.

 

[Brightfame52]

LOL the people of Matthew 23:13 were "entering" the kingdom" and Brightfame52 says they were not because they had no spiritual ability to understand spiritual milk. Utter nonsense.

The Gospel is permanently hid to the lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

As long as we are in a lost condition, the Gospel is hidden. Cant believe what is hidden !

 

[Van]

1 Cor 2:14 says the natural man cannot understand Spiritual things of God, like the Gospel.

No it says the opposite. Natural men cannot understand spiritual solid food (meat) because they are not indwelt.

 

[Van]

The Gospel is permanently hid to the lost. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

As long as we are in a lost condition, the Gospel is hidden. Cant believe what is hidden !

The gospel is not permanently hid from all lost souls, Matthew 23:13.

 

[Brightfame52]

No it says the opposite. Natural men cannot understand spiritual solid food (meat) because they are not indwelt.

You must cant read sir. It says 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is Spiritual things Paul and them spoke 1 Cor 2:13

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[Brightfame52]

The gospel is not permanently hid from all lost souls, Matthew 23:13.

Yes it is. Paul says its hid to them that are lost. The word hid is in the perfect tense in the original, making it something permanent 2 Cor 4:3-4

.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now the only hope of coming out of a lost condition is if God gives us a New Birth.

 

[Van]

You must cant read sir. It says 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Gospel is Spiritual things Paul and them spoke 1 Cor 2:13

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Yes, it says "the things" and does not say "all the things."
Yes, again I said the gospel is comprised of spiritual things, but spiritual milk, not spiritual solid food (meat).

Apparently Brightfame52 either agrees with me, or does not understand the spiritual milk I am presenting?

 

[Van]

Yes it is. Paul says its hid to them that are lost. The word hid is in the perfect tense in the original, making it something permanent 2 Cor 4:3-4
.
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now the only hope of coming out of a lost condition is if God gives us a New Birth.

LOL, now Brightfame52 uses a mistaken understanding of Greek grammar to support his bogus view.

The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. Sample translation: “I have believed.” Notice that the perfect tense carries two ideas: (1) completed action and (2) continuing results.
​

1) So the verse says yes indeed, our gospel has been hid (completed action)
2) And this hiding continues up to the present.
3) In the present, can the thing hidden be revealed? Yes. See Matthew 10:26.

Bottom line, once again the arguments used are both unbiblical and unstudied.