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Featured THE GATES OF HADES will not win is: JESUS' Promise to HIS CHURCHES.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    THE GATES OF HADES
    will not win is: JESUS' Promise to HIS CHURCHES.


    JESUS CHRIST'S Promise of Perpetuity TO HIS ORGANIZED ASSEMBLIES
    that HE STARTED DURING HIS EARTHLY MINISTRY


    “Upon this Rock”
    as Jesus Said, Referring to Himself,

    “I Will Build ( Continue to EDIFY & TEACH )
    My church; and the gates of hell [Hades]
    will not prevail against It”
    [Matthew 16:18].

    ...

    We may find various interpretations of this statement of Jesus,
    but despite a great variety of ideas in detailed interpretation
    it is fairly clear to all that we have here a PROMISE of our Lord
    that His church would not be overcome by the powers of evil.


    ...

    Whatever this church was, it could not fail if Jesus Spoke The Truth.

    ...

    We believe that this church was
    what would now be called a Baptist church,
    and anyone who will honestly examine
    the organization and doctrines
    of this New Testament institution
    in comparison with the organization


    and

    doctrines of SCRIPTURAL
    Baptist churches today
    will reach the same conclusion.




    If the church that Jesus built
    was not a Baptist church,
    then we need to find out
    what kind of church it was, and join that church,
    if we want our service to be pleasing to Him.


    ...

    One thing we can be sure of: if Jesus Spoke The Truth

    — and what real Christian would deny this? —

    the church that Jesus built has been in the world ever since

    and will be here till He Comes Again.

    ...

    re: TEN BIBLE PROOFS
    OF BAPTIST PERPETUITY


    by Rosco Brong, Late Dean
    Lexington Baptist College
    Lexington, KY
     
  2. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Gates do 1 of 3 things hold people (or other creatures) in, hold them out, or let them pass. “Prevailing”, when talking about gates, can only refer to one or the other of the first two.

    Therefore, when the gates of Hades are said to not prevail against the church, it means they either can’t hold the church in or they can’t hold the church out of Hades.

    Why would the church want to get into Hades? I can’t think of any reason except to get people out of Hades (like besieging a castle to rescue prisoners, for instance), which must mean the main gist of the passage is talking about the gates keeping people in.

    So if the gates of Hades not prevailing means that people are not kept in Hades, then the passage is referring to people not staying dead.

    This makes sense, because Jesus came to give us life, but we still die, even after He rose from the dead.

    I think, then, that this passage is referring to the resurrection of the saints—Hades will not be able to prevent the resurrection of the Church of Jesus Christ.

    Thus any particular type of church could fail, like those warned in Rev 1-3, but the Church (true believers) will all be resurrected.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Thoughts.

    “he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. Acts 2:31

    What gate did the soul of Christ pass through to find itself in Hades?

    “let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. “This is the ‘stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.’[fn] <Ps 118:22
    Ps 118:22-24 The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner. This is the LORD'S doing; it is marvellous in our eyes. This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
    Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

    Who was the first stone of the church that was laid, who laid it and from whence was it laid?
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 1 Cor 15:26
    So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”[fn]
    “O Death, where is your sting?[fn]
    O Hades, where is your victory?”[fn]


    The gates of Hades shall not prevail against, her.
     
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  5. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Rams eat oats and does eat oats, but little lambs eat ivy.
     
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  6. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Gates are defensive weapons in ancient warfare. You would build a ramp up to the wall or shatter the gate. We will prevail against Satan and his kingdom. Nothing hell has can stop our offensive capability. Remember Satan falls like lightning from heaven with the spread of the Gospel. We are on the offense against hell.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    A “gate” was a siege weapon widely used by the Romans. It was a large tower on wheels that would be rolled up to the city wall. When near the wall, the “gate” (sort of a bridge on the tower) would drop forward allowing the enemy access to the city.

    peace to you
     
  8. Steven Yeadon

    Steven Yeadon Well-Known Member
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    Do you have a source for that in the context of the Greek word 'pylai?' The Mounce dictionary doesn't mention it.

    πύλη | billmounce.com
     
  9. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I will give the correct context from the LXX of Isa 38:9-11 and it is the same context in Matt 16:18

    A writing of Hezeki'ah king of Judah, after he had been sick and had recovered from his sickness: I said, In the noontide of my days I must depart; I am consigned to the gates of Sheol for the rest of my years. I said, I shall not see the LORD in the land of the living; I shall look upon man no more among the inhabitants of the world.

    He was writing about God answering his prayer and he would not die and enter Sheol, Greek Hades. Dying thou dost die Gen 2:17 is the Gates of Sheol / Hades.
     
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  10. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    When I was in seminary, a Greek professor held this view. He referenced his own research, but I don’t recall whether he actually gave the specific source.

    It appears I have violated one of his cardinal rules. If you make a statement, be ready to support it with the source.

    It seemed very logical to me, however. To say “the gates of hell will not prevail” suggests an offensive movement against the church.

    I can imagine the “siege towers” rolling up, the hordes of sat:n trying to breech the defenses and destroy the church from the inside and bring it to ruin.

    peace to you
     
  11. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    A kid’ll eat ivy, too. Why won’t you?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    The gate of hell was the cave at the Temple of Pan where babies were sacrificed to the God Pan. They were thrown into the water and if they were pulled under the sacrifice was considered accepted. This is in Ceseria Philipi where Jesus was when He made that statement. The mouth of the cave was literally called the Gate of hell. I know this because I stood there and looked into it.

    Please do your research.
     
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  13. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    If that's what Jesus was referring to, how does it apply to the church? Was He saying that the church will overcome the sacrifice of children to the god of pleasure? Or was He saying that the babies thrown into the water there would be saved by the church?

    It seems to make the application rather narrow, if that location and that practice were all Jesus had in mind.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Or maybe you are looking at it narrowly
     
  15. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    That's fine, help me out with it, then.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Jesus almost always used the surroundings to illustrate His points. I would encourage you to read what He said again, study what went on in that temple, and consider also He likely was not trying to be exhaustive.
     
  17. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info. Did Jesus say, “The gate of hell.....” or did He say, “The gates of hell....”

    Were there more than one sacrificial cave?

    peace to you
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Just did a little research and you appear to be spot on.

    The “gate of hell” was not a literal gate, but a “gateway” to the underworld. The followers of Pan believed evil forces used the “gate” (cave) to move back and forth, doing evil for a while and then returning to the underworld. They appeared to believe a time would come when the evil forces would be so plentiful as to overwhelm the world.

    In that context, “The gates of hell...not prevailing” is referencing an offensive attack of evil forces coming from the underworld into our world through the gate (way).

    Thanks again for the info

    peace to you
     
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  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    No it was a singular cave
     
  20. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    "not...exhaustive" meaning that we can add to the application? Sure. But what message do you think He was trying to convey directly to the apostles at the time? In my search, it seemed like most took it to be that the church was on the offensive (we attacking the gates of hell), meaning that we are victorious when we save others from sin, or defensive (gates of hell attacking us), which didn't make as much sense to me but possibly referring to the sin that entangles and leads to destruction.

    The third application I saw was regarding the Old Testament saints, which were thought to be somewhat alive in Hades, but which were removed from there when Jesus died. This doesn't make sense in terms of a church Jesus would build as opposed to one He already built (Old Testament).

    What I don't see, though that third option gets close, is an application where the gates of Hades represents the finality of death, and Jesus' victory (and ours in Him) over death. Since Jesus' primary message was about resurrection, it seems like this last one should be the primary application. And His church would be victorious over death--that even though we will die, we will burst through the gates of Hades as a metaphor of leaving the grave in the resurrection.
     
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