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Featured THE GATES OF HADES will not win is: JESUS' Promise to HIS CHURCHES.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Oct 25, 2020.

  1. JonShaff

    JonShaff Fellow Servant
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    I understand this phrase to mean, "Not even death will stop the church from completing her mission." Hades as in death, not the lake of fire. And we have many Christian Martyrs to attest to this. Christ Himself attests to this, not even death could stop God's will in Him from being completed.
     
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you mean Jesus Christ will! :D
     
  3. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    Yes, but Jesus is saying His Church will. That's "we". He gives us authority; we can ask anything in His name.
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    'I -- I said in the cutting off of my days, I go in gates of Sheol, I have numbered the remnant of mine years. Isa 38:10

    I wonder what the Holy Spirit meant by gates (plural) of Sheol?

    I also wonder if, gates of Sheol spoken of there are same, gates of Hades, Jesus was speaking of?
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Did Jesus pass through gates of Hades?
     
  6. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    No. Not Hell. He saw death. Went to the grave. Descended there. Jesus Died and was Buried.
     
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Yes, agreed.

    peace to you
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Did I say Hell?

    because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, Acts 2:27 YLT

    What exactly do you think the prophet David meant here?
     
  9. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    God the Father would not leave the Body of Jesus Separated from His Soul an amount of time for it to see corruption, or be touched by worms, etc.

    That is speaking of Jesus, only.

    1 Preserve me, O God: for in thee do I put my trust.
    2 O my soul, thou hast said unto the LORD, Thou art my Lord: my goodness extendeth not to thee;
    3 But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.
    4 Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.
    5 The LORD is the portion of mine inheritance and of my cup: thou maintainest my lot.
    6 The lines are fallen unto me in pleasant places; yea, I have a goodly heritage.
    7 I will bless the LORD, who hath given me counsel: my reins also instruct me in the night seasons.
    8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
    9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
    10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
    11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

    Gill puts Hades as the invisible world of separated souls, however, Jesus' Spirit Went from the Cross to The Hands of God.

    So, it might be as I said and Gill says, secondly*, below, i.e., 'the grave, for the Body.

    Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell

    This is an apostrophe, or an address to his Father, who he believed would not leave his soul, as separate from his body, in Hades, in the invisible world of souls, in the place where the souls of departed saints are, but would quickly return it to its body, and reunite them;

    *or else, that he would not leave his dead body, for so (vpn) sometimes signifies; see ( Leviticus 19:28 ) ( 21:1 ) ( Numbers 9:10 ) ( Numbers 19:11 Numbers 19:13 ) in the grave; which is no unusual sense of (lwav) ; see ( Genesis 42:38 ) ( Isaiah 38:18 ) that is, so long as to be corrupted and putrefy...

    Are you asking something else?
     
  10. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    It's the gates of hell, not "hades".
     
  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    In the KJ Hades is translated as "hell." I thought you would know this.
     
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  12. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    Right. So you agree it's the gates of hell, then.
     
  13. George Antonios

    George Antonios Well-Known Member

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    P.S. doctrinally the verse is about the gates of hell not overcoming the Rock, Christ Jesus himself, since his soul was not left in hell. The verse was literal. Applying it spiritually to the church is not wrong, but it's a secondary (see Heb.4:12) application.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Hades, Sheol, the nether world are the same place. There are more then one way to get there.
     
  15. Derf B

    Derf B Active Member

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    If it’s “Hades”, does that affect your theology? Some people restrict “hell” to the lake of fire, or “second death” from Revelation. And it certainly fits, since we are told: Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

    But it also fits, and perhaps more perfectly, with the idea of Hades, as long as the term is used as a synonym of “grave”, or “death”. The gates of Hades/death will not keep the church in—they will all be resurrected. This is the hope of the church, and it is still a hope, as the resurrection hasn’t happened yet.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  16. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    What has The Lord Given you out of The Bible?

    There is a LOT there.

    13 When Jesus came into the borders {coasts} of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I, the Son of man, am?

    14 And they said, Some say that Thou art John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.

    15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

    16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

    17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona; for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father Who is in heaven.




    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,

    This is a "Play-on-Words:, in The GREEK.

    Petros is a small stone, while the Petra is a large, foundation stone if you will.

    The Rock of Ages.

    The Cheif Cornerstone of The KIND of Assemblies Jesus "Founded"


    and upon this rock I will build

    = continue to edify and Teach His KIND of Assemblies Jesus "Founded"

    = My church;

    and the gates of hell

    = the Powers of Supernatural Influenced evil; The Beast throughout the Ages.

    shall not prevail against it.

    = His KIND of Assemblies Jesus "Founded" THAT HE WAS TALKING TO = THE JOHN THE BAPTIST BAPTISED DISCIPLES, Who, as a Specific, ORGANIZED, Assembly, we in Congregation, in Corporate Capacity.


    As what?

    = HIS KIND OF CHURCH ASSEMBLY, BY DESIGN, ORGANIZATIONALLY/ His KIND of Assemblies Jesus "Founded" THAT HE WAS TALKING TO = THE JOHN THE BAPTIST BAPTISED DISCIPLES, Who, as a Specific, ORGANIZED, Assembly, we in Congregation, in Corporate Capacity.

    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven;

    = The Gospel and Commission to Preach The Gospel for SOULS to BE SAVED = INTO THE KINGDOM.


    and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    = Church Discipline. Jesus KIND of Assemblies DO GOD'S BUSINESS.

    20 Then charged He His disciples that they should tell no man that He was Jesus, the Christ.


    = "His disciples" = HIS KIND OF CHURCH ASSEMBLY, BY DESIGN, ORGANIZATIONALLY/ His KIND of Assemblies Jesus "Founded" THAT HE WAS TALKING TO = THE JOHN THE BAPTIST BAPTISED DISCIPLES, Who, as a Specific, ORGANIZED, Assembly, we in Congregation, in Corporate Capacity.
     
  17. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Two translations of the verse where Sheol is first used. Genesis 37:35

    NKJV: And all his sons and all his daughters arose to comfort him; but he refused to be comforted, and he said, “For I shall go down into the grave to my son in mourning.” Thus his father wept for him.

    Darby: And all his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted, and said, For I will go down to my son into Sheol mourning. Thus his father wept for him.

    Why would he be going anywhere? What would be, initiating, this going somewhere. Would his arrival wherever he was going be immediate to the initiation thereof? Would he immediately be with his son upon the initiation?

    Now Jacob lived about 1600/1700 years after Adam and many had departed life therefore man had construed that they must be somewhere and that somewhere in the Hebrew was Sheol the unseen ward, a realm entered.

    From: Lessons from the Garden: “Dying You Shall Die”

    There is a specific manner in which die (muwth) is presented. In our English translations, this verb construct is not noticeable. However, in the Hebrew, there is a double verb used. This type of construct identifies a process, an immediate reality that will come to finality at a future time. The actual phrase should readdying you shall die”.

    Jacob was saying when that takes place which God told Adam I will enter Sheol, to my son.

    Dying you shall die is the gates of Sheol in the Hebrew, Hades in the Greek.

    A writing of Hezeki'ah king of Judah, after he had been sick and had recovered from his sickness: I said, In the noontide of my days I must depart; I am consigned to the gates of Sheol for the rest of my years. I said, I shall not see the LORD in the land of the living; I shall look upon man no more among the inhabitants of the world.

    I am consigned to; by what God told Adam.
     
  18. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    When will it be said O death where thy sting, O Hades where thy victory? Is that relative to; when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, and is that relative to; In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump?

    Is that when the gates of Hades will not prevail against the Church?
     
  19. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    That is part of it. But should we die before the second appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 John 3:2, 1 Corinthians 15:52), we go directly to be with Him in Heaven, not the nether world (Hades, Sheel), 2 Corinthians 5:8. And that place, the nether world, will be done away with in the Judgement, Revelation 20:13.
     
  20. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. <If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. - When?

    2 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - When, are we going to be found ? V 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: - When will we be present with the Lord not found naked? so shall we ever be with the Lord

    2 Cor 5 is not about dying and going to heaven. It is about receiving the self same thing as someone else in due time.
     
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