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Featured "The kingdom of heaven is at hand."

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by PrmtvBptst1832, May 12, 2017.

  1. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    When John the Baptist made his public appearance, the kingdom of heaven was the theme of his preaching (Mt. 3.2). It was also the substance of what Jesus and his disciples preached (Mt. 4.17; 10.7). It is, therefore, very important. What did they mean that the kingdom of heaven was "at hand?" Many interpret the phrase as a temporal indicator. For example, the Dispensationalists claim that the kingdom of heaven was at hand temporally speaking, but because the Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah, it was postponed. Preterists claim that the kingdom of heaven was at hand temporally speaking because Jesus did in fact come approximately forty years later, and the kingdom was set up at that time. Forty years is certainly not at hand if we are to interpret the time indicators in a strictly literal fashion as they insist, but that is beside the point. However, is that the way in which we are to interpret it? Is "at hand" to be interpreted as an indication of time?

    The Pharisees maligned Jesus as exorcising demons by the power of Satan, and Jesus replied, "But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you." (Mt. 12.28) Again, when he was demanded by the Pharisees concerning the coming of the kingdom of God, he said, "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Lk. 17.21) Most translations translate "within you" as "among you" or something equivalent.

    When Jesus sent out his disciples, he commanded them, "And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give." (Mt. 10:7, 8) Were not his miracles and wonders and signs and the authority he gave his disciples over these things incontestable proof that the kingdom of heaven was at hand, that is, already present to some degree through the ministry of Jesus and his disciples?

    What I am proposing is that perhaps the phrase "at hand" is not a proof text for the supposed kingdom that was at hand but then postponed or a proof text that Jesus promised to return within forty years and set it up.
     
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  2. TCassidy

    TCassidy Administrator
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    The Kingdom of Heaven, in the person of the King, certainly was "at hand." Near. In close proximity.

    Anyone who has ever been aboard a Navy ship when the Captain comes up the gang plank will hear "Antrim aboard" over the 1mc. "Antrim" is the name of the ship, not the Captain. He is the embodiment of the ship.

    Same with the Kingdom. Where Jesus is, the Kingdom is.
     
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  3. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    This might be eisegesis, but the fact that the sick were healed, the lepers were cleansed, the dead were raised, and devils were cast out in conjunction with the preaching of the kingdom of heaven by Jesus and the disciples, does that not indicate that these things are mutually exclusive to the kingdom of heaven? "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven." (Mt. 6.10)

    kingdom = the will of our Father in heaven done in earth as it is in heaven

    We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. -1 Jn. 5.19

    How, then, can Satan be bound per Rev. 20.2? Mt. 12.29 is certainly true of instances in the ministry of Jesus and his disciples but not true in general. Lk. 8.31 designates τὴν ἄβυσσον (the abyss) as the place to which the demons implored Jesus to not command them. The angel of the abyss, Abaddon in Hebrew, Apollyon in Greek, is given the key to this place and opens it in Rev. 9.1, 2. All this takes place while, according to Amillennialists and Postmillennialists, Satan is bound in that place with it shut and sealed! (Rev. 20.3) I know this is figurative language, but figurative language is intended to demonstrate reality, not contradict it.
     
  4. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    What are you?
     
  5. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    What you are talking about here is Inaugurated Eschatology; the 'already but not yet.' The Kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God has come, but it is not yet manifest. Christians are already seated in the heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6 etc.), but we're not there yet. Christ is reigning, but in the midst of His enemies (Psalm 110:2).

    One theologian (Kuhlmann?) likened it to the situation in WW2 after D-Day. It was clear that the allies had won and that Hitler was doomed, but there were still terrible battles like Arnhem, the Bulge and the Battle of Berlin to come. The British government was busy planning for the Post-War period even while V1 & V2 flying bombs were falling on London.

    So it is with us; Christ has conquered; Satan himself knows that he has but a little time; we have overcome him by the blood of the Lamb and the word of our testimony, yet for that very reason he is filled with rage, and is seeking those whom he may devour (Revelation 12:10-12).
     
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  6. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    As in the type of David, there was a delay, a gap, between being anointed king and coming into His kingdom:

    28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Mt 16

    Not sure where you get that Christ was the kingdom.
     
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  7. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    The problem with this is that the kingdom of God had already come (Luke 12:28 etc). And although for most 'the kingdom of God does not come with observation,' some standing there did see it as promised (2 Peter 1:16-17; Matthew 16:20-17:1-9).
     
  8. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Still parroting that lame rendering, 'Some of you will not die within the next six days', eh?
     
    #8 kyredneck, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  9. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yea,

    3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of the prophecy, and keep the things that are written therein: for the time is at hand. Re 1:3
    10 And he saith unto me, Seal not up the words of the prophecy of this book; for the time is at hand. Rev 22
     
  10. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    The kingdom of heaven is "at hand".

    Scripture notifies us ~
    1) Jesus is ~ BEFORE/FIRST, in ALL things.

    Col 1
    [17] And he is before all things...

    Scripture notifies us ~
    2) Jesus' kingdom is - NOT "of" this world

    John.18
    [36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world:

    Scripture notifies us ~
    3) Earthly Men (bodies) do not come down from heaven or go to heaven.

    John 3:
    [13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven...

    Scripture notifies us ~
    Living souls departed from their dead bodies, go to hell.
    And hell had a division via a great gulf, dividing the faithful from the unfaithful.

    Luke.16
    1. [26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    Scripture notifies us ~
    Living souls in hell waiting on the comfort side of the great gulf, were with their Father Abraham, Gods faithful servant, and such place was called Paradise; those being sustained in life via, the Tree of Life.

    Luke.16
    [22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom:

    Luke.23
    1. [43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.
    Rev 2
    [7] He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

    Scripture notifies us ~
    The "WAITING" of a mans living soul in hell, in comfort, with their Father Abraham, with the faithful, with the Tree of Life, in paradise....were WAITING for Jesus' SOUL to be FIRST "arrive and LEAVE" hell.

    Scripture notifies us ~
    Jesus' soul arrived in hell, and LEFT hell.

    Acts.2
    [27] Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell...

    Matt.12
    1. [40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    Once Jesus' soul ACCOMPLISHED leaving hell, the Kingdom of Heaven BECAME "at hand"....FOR a saved man's living soul. "AT HAND"....ie available, for EVERY "faithful" living soul, that departs its dead body, thereafter shall NO LONGER "be waiting in Hell", but rather shall ENTER, the Kingdom "OF" Heaven, which is IN Heaven, and prepared (meaning the Tree of Life is now
    "there", to sustain the Living souls of the faithful).

    God never changes, however, it is precisely "change" which a human MUST participate in to become acceptable unto God.

    God provides the WAY for a man to CHANGE. And such change requires the WHOLE of a man to be changed.....not only his outer (flesh), but also the mans inner parts, (heart, soul, spirit). <--- effected by Gods Power.....and our flesh minds; which is OUR JOB, to consistently KEEP the thoughts of our heart (fed by the Holy Spirit), to trump (ie supersede) the thoughts of our flesh MIND.

    Rom.12
    1. [2] And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

    And such WHOLE change has a caveat, which is the CHANGE, MUST occur during a mans PHYSICAL bodily life cycle.

    And EVERY man is an individual, meaning, his OPTION to receive a WHOLE change via God, is entirely the individuals own choice....and such individual is the only recipient of the effects of such change.

    So; the Kingdom of Heaven IS at HAND..... yes. Jesus' soul entered and departed hell, and those faithful living souls already IN WAITING were removed from hell to the Kingdom of Heaven, IN Heaven...and thereafter, departed souls of the faithful, whose body is dead, DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT in hell, but rather go directly to the Kingdom of Heaven (and it is there, they WAIT for the redemption of and change of, their bodies).
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    It's what the Bible says. I'm sorry if you don't like it. :Rolleyes
     
  12. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    No, the Bible in no way says the Transfiguration was Christ 'coming in His kingdom'. That's you parroting the status quo of your 'system'. It was sometime AFTER the Transfiguration that Christ basically repeated the same premise to Caiaphas:

    64 Jesus said unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Henceforth ye shall see the Son of man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven. Mt 16

    What I don't like is the violence your mindless parroting does to the words of Christ. The lame 'explain away' of the system you're slave to makes Christ appear whimsical in His words. And you're unabashed about it.
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    I think you'll find it does. 2 Peter 1:16-18. Just read it.
    One of us is parroting the status quo of his system, but I think you'll find it isn't I. Matthew 16:64 makes no mention of Christ coming 'into His kingdom' for the very good reason that He had already come into His kingdom. The Transfiguration was a visual confirmation of what had already happened (Matthew 12:28 again). Matt. 16:64 speaks of His coming again at the end of the age when 'every eye shall see Him, even they that pierced Him,' because the dead will rise on that day (John 6:29).
    What I don't like is your mindless rudeness to people who take the time to correct your errors. You obviously have an aggression problem; please keep it under control on the board.
     
  14. AndyMartin

    AndyMartin Active Member

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    Luke 17:21 has Jesus speaking to the Pharisees, where He says: "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you". The Greek "ἐντὸς ὑμῶν", does not always mean "within you", as it can mean "among you", which must be the case here, as there is no way that these unsaved "Pharisees" could have the "kingdom" IN them. We have this use in classical Greek, "‘in the midst of your ranks,’ as in Xen. Anab. I. 10, § 3", and many of the English versions translate it, "midst", "among" (NIV, NLT, ESV, NASB, HCB, ISV,). Jesus Christ is THE Representative of the Kingdom of God while He was on earth, which started from the time of His Incarnation.
     
  15. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I have. Peter's clearly referring to Christ's FIRST advent. The Transfiguration was a glimpse to those three of who Christ really was, before He stepped down from Ivory Palaces, of the glory He had with the Father before the world was. It was not the coming of the Son of man in 16:28. Neither is 2 Peter 1:16 in reference to that coming, it's two different words in the Greek.

    And I reiterate, you make Christ sound foolish to render the passage " Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom six days from now".

    Look who's talking.
     
    #15 kyredneck, May 13, 2017
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Which 'time was at hand' and to 'shortly come to pass', not thousands of years and still waiting.
     
  17. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member
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    Oh "Rude One" :Laugh

    Why Jesus is teaching us that the Reign of God / The KINGDOM gentlemen is the world as it would be if God were directly in charge... not the devil, it would be a place of right relationship. It would not be a world w/o pain or misery but simply a world that would be in good contact with all things. Conversely, the work of the Evil One is always to separate, divide and throw apart ---(Dia-bolical). So as delicately as I cay this, lets not go there OK. :Wink
     
  18. PrmtvBptst1832

    PrmtvBptst1832 Active Member
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    The word is Parousia in both...they saw the same majesty Christ will have when he comes again
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Well according to Church history, John was the only apostle to survive the 40 years until AD 70. Where is his account of how he saw the Lord Jesus at that time? Where is anyone's account? If they saw Him, why didn't they say? And why should two different writers not use two different words to describe the same event? [See below]
    If that is the best shot in your locker, I should give it a rest. That is what the Lord Jesus said; who are you to say He sounds foolish? Peter, James and John actually SAW the Lord Jesus in His 'parousia'- translated 'coming' 22 times out of 24 in the KJV, Parousia is also the word used in Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Corinthians 15:23. (FWIW erchomai, the Greek word used in Matt. 16:28 is translated 'come' 609 times out of 630 appearances, including Matthew 24:42). Do you believe that Matthew 24:42 is a different 'coming' to Matthew 24:39?

    I repeat, no one saw the Lord Jesus Christ in AD 70 contra Acts 1:11; Revelation 1:7. AD 70 was a cataclysmic event for the Jewish people, but it was not the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. When that happens everyone will know about it.
     
  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Not according to Strong's.
     
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