The Messianic Kingdom?

Satan was defeated at Calvary so was the penalty of sin death. However satan has not been cast into the Lake of Fire just yet and satan has not been bound as he will be in the 1000 year Kingdom as Revelation 20 states.

He is however, allowed to hinder believers, 1 Thessalonians 2:17-19,
17 "But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
19 For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming?"

Satan hindered Paul and his party. But the Lord Jesus is coming satan cannot prevent that with all his deceitful teaching that he isn't. He is coming to snatch His Bride out, the church.
We are told by Paul, 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10,
8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

There is one coming "whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

Satan has power over the world and influence upon all unbelievers. Scripture is clear. God is still allowing satan to be the prince of this world and the prince and power of the air.

Ephesians 2:1-3,

1 "And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

John 14:29-31,

9 "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence."

Revelation 12:7-12 has yet to occur,

7 "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

Satan has yet to be confined to this old world.

How do we know, Job 1:7 "And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

God knew all along where satan had been and satan appeared before God in Heaven, he had not been cast down as of that time.

We see Job 2:2 "And the Lord said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

Very clear satan was still walking up and down the earth and had access to heaven. Nothing changed yet.

Satan still has access to God, we have no scripture until Revelation 12 that states satan has been cast out of heaven and that is still a yet prophetic passage.


According to Revelation 13 this happens right after satan is cast down,
1 "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

Guess who this is, we see him in,
2 Thessalonians 2:8-10,
8 "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."


Yep the wicked one, who has yet to come. The ione we see in Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 9:27. He is not Christ but the ungodly prince in companion with the anti-christ who are under the influence of satan to make up the unholy trinity.

Satan has been defeated and judged but his sentence has yet to be carried out and he is still the prince and power of the air as Paul stated.

when the 1000 year Kingdom is completed we see,
Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,'

He will decive some folks yet again. But then his sentence will be carried out fully,
10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Then the unbelievers face the Great White throne and are condemned that will be a sad day for us as believers when we see friends and loved one cast into hell because they failed to believe. Because many believers failed to tell them about Christ and all rejected Christ, since they did they have an eternal home the Lake of fire.

But the beast and false prophet (anti-christ) have not come and therefore satan has yet to be cast into the Lake of Fire. One thing of importance to notice not one believer faces the Great White Throne, so where do we face the Bema Seat?

 

revmwc , You still cannot comprehend who is KING of the Universe, that includes this world, earth where we live.

 

Where does it say that believers are not before the Great White Throne. Just what is the bema seat? I don't find that word in the Bible!

 

I don't ignore that at all I just see what scripture tells us.

Revlation 17:

The forming of that unholy alliance as seen in Daniel 9:27, 12 "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

They make a covenant with the beast or he makes one with them. They will war with the Lord,
But here at the 2nd coming we see Christ as you show in the Revelation 19 passage and we are told,

18 "That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

You see the he of Daniel 9:27 is defeated here when Christ returns. The armies of the world are gathered to make war with HIM that upon the Horse.

The beast and false prophet, tow members of the unholy trinity are cast alive into the Lake of Fire aat the end of the Tribulation all this is clear.

Where is the church in all of this?

Revelation 19,
8 "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."
14 "And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

There we are right there with Christ following Him as He defeats the unrighteous.

Then you can't skip this, Revelation 20,

1 "And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

Satan is bound for 1000 years, he is a spiritual being you say and can't be bound yet we see Jude 6 "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."

These are spiritual beings and they are reserved in everlasting chains, so satan is no different from them and he will be bound for 1000 years, and what is occuring on the earth, 4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

Christ is reigning, so too are we as the Church the bride of Christ, so too are the O.T. believers and the Tribulation saints. WE ALL REIGN with Him for 1000 years.

what of the unbelievers, 5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."


after the 1000 year reign of Christ, 7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,"

Satan is loosed and musters an army numbered as the sands of the sea we are told and God rains fire down upon them as they encompass "the beloved city" that is Jerusalem and that is where Christ the Messiah was promised to reign over.

Then we see the resurrection of the dead, that is the unsaved, because all believers are never referred to as the dead, they are called the dead in Christ, meaning their bodies are dead. But the rest of the dead refers to the unbeleivers,

We see:

10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

They are judged and cast into the Lake of Fire. Notice there is not one of the redeemed judged here not one! See right here "and there was found no place for them" all that face Him here to be judged, there is no place for them!

Scripture is very clear on this.

 

Being an amillennial you got to watch your back on this BB!

 

I have answered you as detailed as I can here OR.
But you still avoid this one major flaw in your exegesis of verse 27.
Where does Christ make a covenant with anyone for a period of seven years?

 

Revelation 20,
11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


Not one place do you see in that passage the believers being judged all who face this are cast into the Lake of Fire!

Now we see 2 Corinthians 5:
9 "Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your conscience"

The word BEMAtos is Greek word where we see the term judgement seat.

Therefore all believers will face the BEMA or Judgment seat of Christ. The Greek for Great white throne are a different greek Term, thronon megan leukon, throne great white, not the same at all.

We see too that at some point we of the church will receive,

1 Corinthians 3:

11 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

This is not even shown at the Great White throne in Revelation 20, but Paul says at the BEMA we receive rewards.

So where does the BEMA thaat is the Judgement seat of Christ occur for the Believers of this age?

I see it occurring at the Rapture. Because we are sure not shown it at the end of Revelation.

So where do you see the BEMA occur?

 

2 Corinthians 5:10 τους γαρ παντας ημας φανερωθηναι δει εμπροσθεν του βηματος του χριστου ινα κομισηται εκαστος τα δια του σωματος προς α επραξεν ειτε αγαθον ειτε κακον

βηματος Bematos or Bema.

From A.T. Robertson:

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

This happens 1,000 years before the Great White Throne Judgment at which no believer will be present.

 

Who is the judge at the White Throne?

It can't get any better than this:

Romans 8:17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

 

Christ sits upon the thronon megan leukon, throne great white. It is not who sits upon it we know that it is who faces Him who sits upon it.

If it is believers and unbelievers alike why would it not show the believers rewarded instead of showing the unbelievers cast into the Lake of Fire.

Now we see 2 Corinthians 5:
9 "Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your conscience"

Notice here too what Paul did not say, He didn't say all of mankind would face the Judgment seat of Christ the BEMA, he said "WE" in reference to only believers.

Where as teh dead face the "thronon megan leukon" 12 "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God..." It says God sits upon the Throne, but Jesus is God so Christ sits upon that Great White Throne. Then after that the New Heaven and New Earth come into being with the New Jerusalem.

So again where do you see the BEMA taking place?

 

Why was the Book of Life at the White Throne?

 

You really need to broaden your horizons, knowledge, Scripture quotes, whatever!

Revelation 20:11-15; 21:1-8
11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

21:1-8
1. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Two books are there the first the books of their works, and their works are judged to see if they are enough for them to enter heaven, we see Matthew 7:22-24, 22 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:”

Their works aren't good enough to get them to heaven.

Then the next book is opened,

Whosoever, that is any and everyone whose name was not written in the Book of Life. That is the Lamb’s book of Life where all the names of those who trusted in Christ were written. They are cast into the Lake of Fire because their name failed to appear in the book.

John 3:17 & 18, would apply here, 17 “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.”

Their works failed them and their unbelief condemned them.

The sea and hell gave up their dead. Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire and then the book of Life was opened the one that contains the names of all the saved. None that were saved were missed but none who came before the Great White Throne’s names were written it and they were cast into the Lake of fire for ever and ever.

 

The th4rone in Revelation 21 is not the Great White Throne, this is the Throne in New Jerusalem again a separate throne from that in Revelation 20. Verse 1 of chapter 21 sets a new scene. The throne you highlighted is the Throne in New Jerusalem.

 

Really? That is supposition.

You are ignoring the following:

6. And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

Really you don't see the change from the old earth where the Great White Throne takes place to a new Throne in the New Heaven and New Earth as seen in Revelation 21:1.

Scripture is clear in the verses you post all who received Christ as their savior will inherit eternity with God and live on the New Earth with its New Heaven. While the sinners who rejected Christ will not be permitted into it.

He will be the God of all who believe and He will sit upon the Throne in New Jerusalem as well as the Father will and they will be the light in that city.

Nothing could be more obvious than that in Chapter 21.

Again where do you see the BEMA that is Believers facing the Judgment seat of Christ?

 

Read Revelation 20:11!

 

11 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.”

Yes and your point, where is this throne?

It is on earth where the 1000 year Kingdom is ending.

how do we know Verse 9 of Chapter 20, 9 “And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Then we see verse 10, 10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

Then 11 makes it clear the Throne is still upon the earth, why because satan was upon the earth, those who encompassed the city were upon the earth and God will not allow non-regenerate humans into Heaven. The Throne in Revelation 21 is in New Jerusalem and no sinner will approach that Throne at all.

The only place the Great White Throne can be is upon the old earth.

 

revmwc

:thumbs:

:thumbs:

We differ here mwc.......Satan was bound,

25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.
The Kingdom has begun,

Heb12;18-25

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.




the1000yrs concludes on the last day.

yes he is...

yes he does...but Jesus is Lord over all.

This has been taking place the whole time, you are mistaken.


29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

lk10;
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

wrong;
17 And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name.

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

 

You are so brainwashed by false pre-trib-doctrine you ignore everything that doesn't compote with that false doctrine. Forget that nonsense about the Jewish millennium and then perhaps the scales will fall from your eyes! The Scripture states:

Revelation 20:11. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

You are deliberately denying Scripture in order to support the fable of pre-trib-dispensationalism! A literal reading of Verse 11 makes it clear that the Great White Throne is not on earth. I don't believe it is in the New Heavens and New Earth, at least not when judgment occurs and it most certainly is not David's throne!