What is missed is the exception Jesus Christ makes concerning the forgiveness of sins which His sacrifice will cover...
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." (Matt12:31)
Rejection of the Holy Ghost's testimony that Jesus is the Christ will not be forgiven and thus His sacrifice will not be laid against their charge. But Christ's sacrifice does indeed cover all manner of sin. Jesus died for the whole world, but the whole world will not receive the free gift.
The Millions Who Never Had a Choice
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by thatbrian, Nov 9, 2015.
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4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah Ps 87
1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah. Isa 54
26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal 4
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2
There were MORE of God's heavenly born children OUTSIDE of the Mosaic Covenant than there were of 'her that had the husband'. They had not the law, nor had heard the law, yet they did by nature the things of the law thereby showing the work of the law written upon their hearts.
....It behoveth you to be born from above; the Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.`Jn 3:7,8
The awful doctrine of hardline restrictivism and the erroneous doctrine of Gospel or 'means' regeneration go hand in hand. -
Something really odd going on with this thread. I had made the above post yesterday, received replies, and commented further, and this morning they were gone.
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
There were technical problems yesterday. Posts from other threads were lost and the board was inaccessible for awhile.
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Thank you!
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Now does that mean there will be born again children of God in heaven who do not know the gospel while on earth? No. Revelation 14:6, "6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people," Who is the angel? It is Jesus himself and He has been preaching the gospel throughout history to His people via the inward call th the elect hearing HIS voice (not the voice of the preacher who can speak Jesus's words, but not use His voice) and being made alive. Since Messiah is the Word of God which became flesh (John 1:14) and since Yehovah has shown forth His salvation and all flesh has seen it together (Is. 40:5 & 52:10 - meaning I think every kindred, nation, tribe and tongue - Rev. 7) and since the time is now come that the dead hear His voice and live ( Ezek. 37 & John 5:25) and since His sheep hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:16), I conclude that the Messenger of Yehovah who is the salvation of Yehovah is proclaiming the eternal gospel, which is the deliverance of His people from their sin in Adam by the shed blood of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world, unto them that dwell upon the earth, every man in his order ( I Cor. 15:22f). "Let him that has ears to hear, hear"
"How beautiful upon the mountain (Zion) are the feet (feet of brass as if they had been burned in the furnace) of Him that brings good tidings that publishes peace; that brings good tidings of good (gospel) that publishes salvation that says unto Zion, Ty God reigns" (Is. 52:7 & Nahum 1:15).
Brother Joe -
Rejection of the gospel is not the unpardonable sin (though admittedly all who are pardoned will receive the gospel before death). But let us examine the words of our text. The sins which shall be forgiven unto men, and the sins which shall not be forgiven, are described by our Lord as being precisely the same. “All manner of sin and blasphemy shall he forgiven unto men.” Are there any other manner or kind than all manner? “But the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.” The speaking of a word against the Sou of man shall he forgiven, but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven. The Son of man is not the surety of any but his own members, all the sins they have ever committed were against him as their responsible surety, and the full expiation for them was exacted at his hand, and the sins of his people which he bore included all manner of sin and blasphemy, from speaking a word to the terrible sin of blasphemy. But all the sins which men commit, for which Christ as Surety is not responsible, from the speaking of a single word against the Holy Ghost to the sin of blasphemy, are absolutely unpardonable, not because the sins are varied in kind or enormity, but because there can be no remission of sins only through Christ. If our sins, however small or great, were not against Christ, and charged to or laid on him, then there is no hope for forgiveness or salvation, for there is salvation in no other name. If our sins are not righteously charged to and canceled by Christ, then they are against the Holy Ghost, or against God, as a Spirit, for God is a Spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. -
robustheologian Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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As brother Robust explained earlier to you, the persons whom Christ would have gathered are not here represented as being unwilling to be gathered together under the protecting hand of Jesus, as a hen gathered her chickens under her wings; as many would have God’s people believe, for it is not said: How often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not, nor is it said, How often would I have gathered Jerusalem, and she would not; neither is it said: I would have gathered thy children and they would not; but it is said: “How often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not.” It was the rulers – the Scribes and Pharisees – who prevented these Jews from having contact with Jesus, not the Jews themselves, their desire was to follow Him. It was not the common people to whom these words of Jesus were directed, but their governors, rulers – the Scribes and Pharisees of whom Jesus said, “Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.” Matt. 23:38. This alone is sufficient proof to destroy or disallow the argument found in this passage in favor of free-will salvation. Notice we read of the parents of the blind man whom Jesus healed, "His parents feared the Jews, for the Jews already had asserted that if any man did confess that He was Christ, he should be put out of the Synagogue.” (Jon. 9:22) and of Joseph of Arimathea was a disciple of Jesus, but secretly, “For fear of the Jews.” *See Jon. 19:38). Does this take on the passage make sense? -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Well said. I also like to point out Gen 2:17, "but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” Is God a liar? -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
So, if as you claim, that Lazarus is an analogy for people being spiritually dead why did Jesus not teach that very lesson? Why would he couch his words to his disciples to make them think that Lazarus was only sleeping? If your analogy holds, why would Thomas say, "let us go there and die also?", i.e. Let us all go there and be dead in our sins?
11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.”
12 His disciples replied, “Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better.”
13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead,
15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”
16 Then Thomas (also known as Didymus) "said to the rest of the disciples, “Let us also go, that we may die with him.”
40 Jesus says, “Did I not tell you that if you believe, you will see the glory of God?”
Note there is no "allow me to give you a new heart, to figuratively "make alive" your "dead in sin body", and then you can see the glory of God. No, it was, "believe and you will see the glory of God."
The lesson of Lazarus is not that people are "dead in sin", the lesson is that Jesus holds the literal power over death through the resurrection!
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tyndale1946 Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die;
or "in dying, die" F26; which denotes the certainty of it, as our version expresses it; and may have regard to more deaths than one; not only a corporeal one, which in some sense immediately took place, man became at once a mortal creature, who otherwise continuing in a state of innocence, and by eating of the tree of life, he was allowed to do, would have lived an immortal life; of the eating of which tree, by sinning he was debarred, his natural life not now to be continued long, at least not for ever; he was immediately arraigned, tried, and condemned to death, was found guilty of it, and became obnoxious to it, and death at once began to work in him; sin sowed the seeds of it in his body, and a train of miseries, afflictions, and diseases, began to appear, which at length issued in death. Moreover, a spiritual or moral death immediately ensued; he lost his original righteousness, in which he was created; the image of God in him was deformed; the powers and faculties of his soul were corrupted, and he became dead in sins and trespasses; the consequence of which, had it not been for the interposition of a surety and Saviour, who engaged to make satisfaction to law and justice, must have been eternal death, or an everlasting separation from God, to him and all his posterity; for the wages of sin is death, even death eternal, ( Romans 6:23 ) . So the Jews F1 interpret this of death, both in this world and in the world to come. -
SovereignGrace Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Sovereign Grace nailed the story of Lazarus as this figuratively represents those dead in sin. Many well known commentators agree as well.
But the other healing's of Christ of the blind, lame, deaf, mute, paralyzed, dead, lepers show forth the same truth. You've also mentioned the given of His power over death exemplified in the account, but this truth does not undo what Sovereign Grace shared, so it is not an either or (as if only what you said is correct and proves him wrong and vice versa). Therefore Jesus accomplished more than just declaration of His power of resurrection, and we as believers only can believe via that same power (Eph. 1:19) not via some innate source of faith. -
InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29 and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
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