I like the last question. Answer the latter question with regulative scripture. What legal statement in scripture declares specific forms of music to be "unfruitful works of darkness?"
I will keep pushing you to show the clear regulations that explicitly make your point.
The answer to that is that you have none. You are making vague implications from verses that you imagine make a point for you, but you have none.
Since there is no explicit law on this subject, we are therefore left to our conscience. This means Romans 14 is our guide. I leave you to your conscience and if we ever met, I would not attempt to shake your conscience. This is grace and I would extend it to you.
The Music Debate Today
Discussion in 'Music Ministry' started by Eric B, Aug 28, 2022.
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
God is infinitely wiser than we are. You need to submit to His wisdom.
Where does Scripture teach that the unfruitful works of darkness do not include any kinds of music?
What you are continually doing without any Scripture to support your view is begging the question that all kinds of music are pleasing to God, acceptable to Him, and fit for use in worship. You need to provide Scripture that supports your view. You do not have any because there isn't any. -
Follow your conscience. Listen to the music that you think is pleasing to God. I will do the same. Our music that we listen to will be different. I'm good with that. You, on the other hand, seem to demand that everyone conform to your opinion. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
How do you know that the unfruitful works of darkness do not include any kinds of music? -
You use "the unfruitful works of darkness" as your broad brush to mean "whatever I, SMA, thinks unfruitful works of darkness means to me." That's pure legalism on your part.
You have zero scripture. Accept your position as being empty of scripture. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
These passages make clear that the unfruitful works of darkness especially include the works of those who are involved in demonic activities because evil supernatural beings are the rulers of the darkness of this world.
You want to claim that even the distinctively occult kinds of music that any and all occultists play and produce are all still only pleasing to God, acceptable to Him, and fit for use in worship even though they are engaging in demonic activities.
You have to prove from the Bible that regardless of who plays any music, regardless of what activities those people are involved in, etc, all their music is still pleasing to God and none of it is an unfruitful work of darkness of people who are engaged in wicked demonic activities. -
Now, exegete these three verses and show me how Paul is referring to specific forms of music.
This is, after all, a thread that is debating music. What specific regulations against music are found in the three verses you shared? As the resident legalist, you need to show us the law so we don't break it. -
OnlyaSinner Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
There's at least one passage that could show God's displeasure of certain music, in Exodus 32. The dancing and singing before the golden calf (vv17-18) surely fitted "the unfruitful works of darkness".
Also, I'd not label SMA as a legalist, more of one "majoring in the minors". IMO, true legalists are those who base their salvation on keeping God's law, rather than by His grace through faith in Christ's finished work. The "ruler" in Luke 18:18-25 thought that perhaps "All these have I kept from my youth up" might be enough. -
There is no regulation on forms of music anywhere in the Bible, that I am aware of. I await SMA providing this passage.
Regarding your definition of legalism, if that is the correct definition, you are then correct. I was not using the term in regard to salvation, but instead in regard to a set of rules and actions required of a Christian by another Christian or group of Christians that determines holiness or piety. Having grown up in the IFCA I was immersed in legalism whereby rules and regulations for demanded Christian living were required for Christian fellowship. Failure to comply met with censure and shunning. SMA therefore meets the standard of legalist in my definition. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Just as when God put certain Canaanite cities under the ban and forbad His people from having anything to do with anything of those cities, so God has put everything that is distinctively of the occult off-limits. You claim that does not apply to music that is distinctively of the occult. You have to prove that is true. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Whatever their motivations were, Aaron attempted to redefine the act into worship of Yahweh:
And he received the gold from their hand and fashioned it with a graving tool and made a golden calf. And they said, “These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!” When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it. And Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow shall be a feast to the LORD.” (Ex. 32:4–5)
Is this about worshiping false gods, or the true God falsely? It sounds an awful lot like both. The people want something new. Aaron invokes the divine name, the LORD (Yahweh), in order to consecrate the feast devoted to celebrating and sacrificing to this shiny statue.
What was the Lord’s verdict? Despite the best (though dubious) intentions of Aaron, the people abandoned faithfulness to God. Despite Aaron calling it holy, their new worship was nothing but an abomination. Despite it being labeled worship of Yahweh, God himself dubbed it worship of something else.
Reexamining Idolatry: The Golden Calf and False Worship -
OnlyaSinner Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Joshua described the noise of the people below as "a noise of war in the camp" then Moses responded that it wasn't a battle but "the noise of them that sing do I hear." It's true that there is no explicit verse or passage that states this singing (or any other music) is bad/sinful. However, in Ex. 32 the singing was part of an idolatrous celebration. Music affects the emotions, and in this instance the music would seem to be augmenting idolatrous emotions. -
That same music induced David to dance before the Ark of the Covenant.
Was David's wife, Michel, right to be angry with him?
We make our point that music, in itself, is governed by the conscience so that worship can be glorifying in any musical genre. Yet, the songs of the sons of Satan are of no value to the sons of the King. We lift our praise to the King of Kings. We do not celebrate the enemy of our King. -
There are Christian songs that are sung to bar tunes. The most famous of these is "A Mighty Fortress is Our God." A newer song sung to the tune of Auld Lang Syne is "All Glory Be to Christ." Is it wrong to worship God with this song?
Words by Dustin Kensrue To the tune of Auld Lang Syne
Verse 1
Should nothing of our efforts stand, No legacy survive,
Unless the Lord does raise the house, In vain its builders strive.
To you who boast tomorrow’s gain, Tell me, what is your life?
A mist, it vanishes at dawn, All glory be to Christ.
Chorus
All glory be to Christ our King,
All glory be to Christ.
His rule and reign we’ll ever sing,
All glory be to Christ.
Verse 2
His will be done, His kingdom come, On earth as is above.
Who is Himself our daily bread, Praise Him the Lord of love.
Let living waters satisfy the thirsty without price.
Come eat of Him, our Living Bread, all glory be to Christ.
Chorus
All glory be to Christ our King,
All glory be to Christ.
His rule and reign we’ll ever sing,
All glory be to Christ.
Verse 3
When on the day, the great I Am, the faithful and the true,
The Lamb who was for sinner’s slain, Is making all things new.
Behold our God shall live with us, And be our steadfast Light,
And we shall e’er his people be, All glory be to Christ.
Chorus
All glory be to Christ our King,
All glory be to Christ.
His rule and reign we’ll ever sing,
All glory be to Christ.
All glory be to Christ our King,
All glory be to Christ.
His rule and reign we’ll ever sing,
All glory be to Christ. -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
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Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
The war-like music that Joshua heard emanating from the camp was the music of people singing and dancing who were in fellowship with demons. The reason that music sounded the way that it did when it was heard from a distance is because it was ungodly music played and sung by people in fellowship with demons. -
There is no reason to claim one music evil while another music good. That would be purely opinion without biblical support. Do you see the normative principle in effect? -
Scripture More Accurately Well-Known Member
Exod. 32:17 And when Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.
18 And he said, It is not the voice of them that shout for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.
Why did the Spirit want us to know this information? Why is it in Scripture? How are we supposed to profit from it?
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