I really appreciate Robert Slowley's painstaking and comprehensive work in listing all the verses in the canon and showing the differences (if any) with the 1984 NIV,TNIV and the 2011 NIV.
I went through 13 books in the New Testament and just pulled out *some* select snippets comparing the older TNIV with the latest new NIV. I didn't itemize every verse -- just a number from 13 NT books so far.
When I started the process I didn't intend to put the ESV in the mix. But then decided it would be interesting.
Later I might get specific with a listing of the snips. But presently I'd like to simply catalog my findings so far.
Remember, the select snips are culled from 13 NT books.This simple survey involves segments of only 92 verses.
E = ESV
T = TNIV
N =2011 NIV
I found that the TNIV snips (not entire verses -- just the isolated important parts)were identical with the ESV wording on 18 occasions.In 5 more cases the wording was almost the same.
The 2011 NIV wording was identical with the ESV 14 times. In 13 additional places the wording was almost like the ESV.
So there is nothing definitive so far with my limited sampling. There are still 42 other cases where the wording of both the TNIV and 2011 NIV do not bare a resemblance with the ESV.
Perhaps I'll pick up a trend if I choose to go through the remaining 14 books of the NT canon in my limited manner.
In Summary:
E= T 18 times
E approximates T 5 times
_______________________________________________
E = N 14 times
E approximates N 13 times
_______________________________________________
In the rest of the 42 verses there was no similarity to the ESV from either the TNIV or 2011 NIV.
The New NIV Compared With The TNIV And ESV
Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by Rippon, Nov 10, 2010.
Page 1 of 5
-
-
Nice summary.
When you post your complete findings, I hope you include the NIV 1984.
...Bob -
E = T 25 times
E approximates T 8 times
_____________________________________
E = N 15 times
E approximates N 13 times
_____________________________________
In the remaining 51 verses there is no similarity to the ESV from either the TNIV or 2011 NIV. -
I will list some snippets which demonstrate that the 2011 NIV uses better English than the TNV. The TNIV did have some instances of out-dated and cumbersome English. Back in 2007 I had sent in several hundred suggestions for improvement in the New Testament TNIV.
The following examples will show that the 2011 uses standard,contemporary English in contrast to the TNIV.
From the book of Mark :
9:48
T : their worm does not die [same as ESV]
N : the worms that eat them do not die
14:19
T : surely not I?
N : Surely you don't mean me?
14:37
T : Could you not [same as ESV]
N : Couldn't you
From the book of Luke :
1:16
T : Many of the people of Israel will he bring back
N : He will bring back many of the people of Israel
1:38
T : May it be to me according to your word. [Almost the same as ESV]
N : May your word to me be fulfilled.
8:6
T : Some fell on rock
N : some fell on rocky ground
10:30
T : he fell into the hands of robbers
N : he was attacked by robbers
21:12
T : They will deliver you to synagogues and prisons
N : They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison
22:18
T : of the fruit of the vine
N : from the fruit of the vine
23:18
T : With one voice they cried out
N : But the whole crowd shouted
24:24
T : but him they did not see
N : but they did not see Jesus
From the book of Acts :
11:22
T : News of this reached the ears of the church [ESV almost the same]
N : News of this reached the church
17:4
T : and not a few [ESV is the same]
N : and quite a few
19:24
T : no little business [ESV is the same]
N : a lot of business
27:23
T : an angel of the God whose I am
N : an angel of the God to whom I belong [Same as ESV]
From the book of Romans :
2:15
T : their thoughts now accusing,now even defending them
N : their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them
[The TNIV rendering is awkward with "now' being repeated.]
3:8
T : as we are slanderously reported as saying and as some claim that we say
N : as some slanderously claim that we say
[I don't know how the TNIV rendering here made it into that NIV up-date]
7:24
T : from this body of death [Same as ESV]
N : from this body that is subject to death
11:12
T : will their fullness bring
N : will their full inclusion bring
11:13
T : I make much of my ministry
N : I take pride in my ministry
[The 2011 rendering is a big improvement.]
15:28
T : received this fruit
N : received this contribution
From the book of 1 Corinthians :
9:7
T : eat of its grapes ... drink of the milk
N : eat its grapes ... drink the milk
11:28
T : drink of the cup [Same as ESV]
N : drink from the cup
16:16
T : submit to such as these [Same as ESV]
N : submit to such people -
People would be surprised (well, not many...most already know this) that the ESV and NIV (thus TNIV) were identical in places. As is the NASB with the ESV.
There's another good thread on here about comparing the TNIV with NIV. Check it out. I'd love to spend more time doing comparison (I did a few early on) but this is a busy time for me. I'm eager to get a print copy of the new NIV. -
-
-
-
Baptist4life Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Very well put. IMHO, a translation should be just that, not an interpretation. -
-
There is no mistranslation or theological aberration going on. Methinks you are too quick on your trigger there Franklin. But then,perhaps that's my intrepretation. ;) -
No, "my take" is not made "mysterious" by the existence of parallel passages. Parallel passages should have no bearing on the translation in another book. The Greek word in Mark (& Matthew) is a altogether a different word; the versions have correctly rendered that word as "rocky places" in those books.
On the other hand, the KJV/NKJV/ASV/RSV/ESV have "rock" in Luke. Young and Darby have "rock". The older NIV has "rock". These versions only have "rock" because that is all there is in Greek. Luke says what he says. Why can't he speak with his own voice? (guided by the Holy Spirit, of course) Should we impose upon his account even more details from the others? By this reasoning then we ought bring to the attention of the reader of Luke the fact that this parable was delivered by Jesus "by the sea" (according both Matthew & Mark). God forbid! That would be the homogenization of Scripture.
Surely you agree that every unique detail from each Gospel should NOT be inserted into all the others. But this is what the new NIV has done. Yes, it is a small infraction. But if it begins with just a little, or only occassionally, where will it stop? And, it seems that God wanted us to have different words for these accounts from which we can often learn much.
Similarly, the TR is rightly criticized for inserting text from latter chapters of Acts forward into a parallel account without actual Greek manuscript support in those places. -
All translations involve interpretation to a degree. However, more literal ones will do so less than those that are more dynamic in nature. So everyone's right to an extent. 1 Tim 3:11's gunaikas is a good example. The old NIV (and KJV, NKJV, ESV, NET, and old HCSB - not sure about the revised one) all translate the word as "wives" or "their wives." While one can make an argument for translation as the root can mean either, the addition of "their" is clearly an interpretative rendering. The new NIV (and NASB, NRSV, et.al.) renders it simply as "Women," leaving the reader to determine whether the women are the wives of deacons, deacons, or another class of women servants.
You can be overly literal. You can also over-interpret. Context is everything.
There...I think I ticked off everyone :) -
NASBU : rocky soil
GW : rocky soil
ISV : stony ground
MLB : bedrock
NIrV : rocky places
NAB : rocky ground
No theological aberration is going on. These are acceptable translations -- not commentary on the text. Franklin -- you are too quick on your trigger to label legit translations as less than desirable. -
Good stuff!
-
-
From Luke 8:6
Wyclif : a stoon
Tyndale : on ston
Coverdale : on stone
Matthew's : the stone
Great : on stone
Bishops' : on stones
Geneva : the stones
Rotherham : the rock
Weymouth : the rock
Goodspeed : the rock
AMP : the rock
HCSB : the rock
NCV : on rock
New Jerusalem : on rock
TNIV : on rock
Message : the gravel
I could go on (and on) -
Sorry, but the MLB's "bedrock" is essentially a synonym for 'rock'! Even the NIrV's "rocky places" is marginally acceptable (since it is not 'rocky ground' or soil, earth, etc.).
So, you've added the normally reliable NASB and the NAB; and I was particularly disappointed in the NASB. -
-
Page 1 of 5