With all due respect, Sir, you haven't shown us one quark of historical fulfillment of any eschatological prophecy.
Those events will be LITERAL. We see that Jesus' prophecy of the destruction of the destruction of J & the temple was LITERALLY fulfilled, as part of the fulfillment of His "days of vengeance" prophecy against that generation of Jews.
Right now, the first 13 verses of the Olivet Discourse have been fulfilled, with the preaching of the Gospel to all peoples still being fulfilled. But the main show hasn't started yet-the coming of the beast & false prophet, marka the beast, etc. & certainly not the returna Jesus.
Please show us the occurrence of the events in history that prets say have already occurred. Let's see REAL PROOF, not guesswork or imagination.
The rapture
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Jan 21, 2021.
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I'm not sure how you can say that Jesus does not resurrect the dead and separate the sheep from the goats, when Matthew 25:31-46 makes it so clear that He does. From your "harvest" comment, I am guessing you were referring to Matthew 13:39, where Jesus said that the harvest is the end of the age. Again, I don't see your point. -
The Great Tribulation was the siege of Jerusalem (AD 67-70). The "nor ever will be again" language is hyperbolic, similar to Ezekiel 5:8-9.
Since you left off with verse 13, let's discuss Matthew 24:14 - "This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the whole world". The word for "world" in this text is "oikumene", which refers to the inhabited earth, specifically the Roman Empire. It's the same word we find in Luke 2:1, where Augustus issued a decree that a census be taken of the inhabited earth. Obviously, Augustus was only taking a census of the Roman Empire. If you read Romans 1:8, Romans 16:25-26, Colossians 1:3-6, 21-23, and 1 Timothy 3:16, you will see that the gospel has indeed been preached throughout the whole world - in the original sense of how Jesus meant it.
I could show you more evidence, but you will dismiss everything as Preterist nonsense. However, I would caution you against changing the meaning of the very words that Christ Himself has spoken. -
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And you prets are the ones trying to change Jesus' words, calling them "hyperbole, apocalyptic language, etc.
You're gonna hafta do a LOT-BETTER with historical proof than what you've done so far. I'm a fairly-keen student of history, & I've not seen any of those events in history save what I've mentioned earlier. And once again, that pret practice of reducing Jesus' prophecies to "figurative/symbolic" status is a shot-put that won't float. it's simply FALSE, as is preterism itself. -
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Meanwhile, once again, Once again, these Scriptural reminders:
1 Cor. 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
And in 1 Thess.4: 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Rev. 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Those Scriptures are as plain as the nose on your face. There's no other valid meanings nor interps of them. Plainly they prophesy the event we call the rapture. -
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Now, if the trib had occurred in 66-70 AD, it woulda made Jesus a liar twice. First, the siege of J was NOT the worst event in man's history by a long shot, & not even the worst thing to have happened to the Jews. The nazi holocaust was far-worse, killing a lot more Jews than the siege of J did. And Jesus said He[d return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the trib. So, if the trib was then, he's long-overdue !
In trying to justify the pret myth, you're still trying to teach a pig to roller-skate. I suggest you look at the EVIDENCE against it.
And, BTW, the only prets I have anything against are those authors who spread the pret garbage, such as Gentry & Preston. IMO, they're simply fulla baloney.
"Preterism-Phony as a $3 bill!" -
You're saying that "oikumene" means the Roman empire alone. -
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Thank you for the history regarding why the Roman army left. That really makes sense. When you say you are good at history, you ain't kidding.
I gave you the definitions of oikumene and kosmos, along with their usage in the Bible. I stand by my previous argument.
I share your view of Don Preston, and all Full Preterism promoters. However, I have the greatest respect for Ken Gentry, Gary DeMar, R.C. Sproul, and other Partial Preterism teachers and authors. I believe we've already discussed the rest of the points you made. -
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