Because the Second Coming did not happen in the 1st century. Fleeing to the hills from the Romans was the only thing history records as a fulfillment. Using Scripture to say anything else is a private interpretation phenomenon, that started from the false assumption, Christ had returned. The return of Christ was never documented any where, so still a future event.
The Great Great Great, tribulation has been going on for 1990 years. It is the length of expected trouble on earth. The greatest troubles will be after the Second Coming when God on the throne, and the Lamb are literally on the earth. They are the ones Satan comes against. Satan can only prevail, because the church failed prior to the Second Coming in gathering a harvest. Just like the vineyard was taken away from a failed Jewish stewardship, the vineyard will either be taken away from the church as a failure, or the church will have a full harvest to present to the Lord of the vineyard. Today is the day the church is facing the same question of the Lord of the vineyard coming and asking for an accounting, like the 1st century stewards.
So the church has been given 1990 years of stewardship. The house of Jacob only had 1400 years. That the church cannot even agree on Spirit led insight is very telling. How can 100 different views on the same Second Coming be all from God?
That is the reason Satan will ever be allowed to have 42 months AFTER the church. And most posters today expect to be in Satan's 42 months of control. How can they be both in the church and serve Satan at the same time? Do they not understand that when the time is up, it is up? The time is up when God comes, and that is not at the end of Satan's time. God is here to collect the harvest before Satan gets any chance of control. Those waiting for an AC are not waiting for God, and will be too late at that point.
The rapture
Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Judith, Jan 21, 2021.
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BTW, not being judgmental. Just literally observing the facts of so called figurative excuses, on black and white text, that since they are God's Word, not open to 1000's of interpretations. -
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The time of unprecedented tribulation is when the Lord of the vineyard is doing His earthly ministry. The first 3.5 years was from His baptism to the Cross. The second half will not be 3.5 years, and is getting shorter each second prior to the Second Coming.
The 7th Trumpet is in April of 2023. That is the completion of the Second Coming. -
The seals, trumps, & bowls will all be part of the great trib within a less-than 3.5 year period after the antichrist comes to power. -
There is a time reference of 42 months allowed to Satan. The vials are the wrath of God on Satan and his worshippers at the end of the 42 months. We can know that the 7th Trumpet is the start of Satan's control, and it ends exactly 42 months from the second it starts.
Thus all the Trumpets and Thunders take place while God and the Lamb are on the earth. This is the time of unprecedented trouble. Every single inhabitant on earth will understand this time. Revelation 6:15-17
15 Then the earth’s kings, the rulers, the generals, the rich and the mighty — indeed, everyone, slave and free — hid himself in caves and among the rocks in the mountains,
16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of the One sitting on the throne and from the fury of the Lamb!
17 For the Great Day of their fury has come, and who can stand?”
This is the Second Coming. God on the throne and the Lamb will be present on earth and no human will be in the dark. This is the only connection that John gives in accord with the Olivet Discourse. This happens prior to the Trumpets. The Seals have been overlooked, because no one accepts that God sent Covid19 into the world as the 1st Seal.
Either some put Revelation into the whole of church history, thus no definition, or like John the Baptist, Christ will show up one day to get baptized and no one was prepared then either.
God never told any one the time of the Second Coming, thus John and God wrote it so it would take many, if not all by surprise. Many have an opinion on the Seals. What I post will just be set apart as a private opinion like John baptized privately in the Jordan. -
It can't be pick-and-choose, but it's not always possible to know literal or symbolic. -
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I am on the road for the next few days, so I probably won't be able to reply to any responses until I return home. -
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As for Satan's 42 months it is found in chapter 12 two times: 1260 days and time, times, and half a time. Then confirmed in chapter 13:
5 It was given a mouth speaking arrogant blasphemies; and it was given authority to act for forty-two months.
Time, times and half a time is 3.5 years. This is not the GT, or great tribulation, nor time of unprecedented tribulation. It is the time of Satan's anger, or wrath as the result of the 7th Trumpet, ie third woe. It is Satan and his angels cast out of heaven for the second and final time. They have 42 months of full authority. That is why Jesus, as you state it, "shortly returns". Jesus wraps up Satan's and all who worship him, troublesome time, at the battle of Armageddon, where the last of Adam's flesh is destroyed.
Why would Jesus leave with the 144k and leave the church on earth? The church had been removed as Stewards when God on the throne and the Lamb come. They have to come once, to be able to "shortly return layer".
Why do you think the rapture "works" at all? The church is no longer necessary. The church's time is up. Matthew 25, states Jesus Christ is going to be live and in person for the final harvest, separating the sheep from the goats.
This all takes place after the great tribulation known as the church age, and during the Trumpets, an unprecedented time of trouble. The church age is extended (for sake of the elect), and the Time of the Trumpets and Thunders is shortened. The shorter time is shrinking between the Second Coming and the days of the 7th Trumpet. The church age is not shortened, because that is God's Grace being extended.
The only time being limited or made smaller is the time of the Trumpets and Thunders to allow more time for the church to bring in a final harvest, before God and the Lamb, and Satan get a hold of those left on earth. There is no set in stone 3.5 years of unprecedented trouble. That time keeps getting shorter. That prophecy is literally taking place as we post.
The only set time is Satan's 42 months of authority, if they happen at all. If the church keeps "expecting" an AC and Satan, instead of revival, what is going to be born? If the church expects revival, 2 Chronicles 7 is key. The church is currently in Solomon's position except instead of a Temple, The 1000 year reign of Christ is about to happen. What is to be done has to be now. -
Well, ACTUALLY, the 3.5 years is what's allotted to the antichrist's empire, which will include virtually the whole world one way or another. I believe he will take power in stages. First there'll be a 10-nation confederacy, which he will take over by uprooting the rulers of 3 of its members, with the others becoming his vassals, while retaining nominal rulership of their own nations. They'll then begin bringing other nations under their rule, much as Russia did, by veiled threats, & in a few cases, direct military intervention. None will be able to stand against him. He shall prevail against what saints will be left. But his empire won't last more than 3.5 years.
During that time, he will make the marka the beast mandatory for one to be able to conduct business, ceclaring himself to be God & demanding that he & his statue in the temple be worshipped, killing anyone who refuses to worship him. And shortly after he declares himself God, the trib will begin. I believe his declaring himself God, which will be the "abomination of desolation", will be the beginning of the final 3.5 years of the age. However, Jesus said it'd be cut short, lest all flesh should perish. He will end the trib & return immediately afterward, as He said.
The rapture will occur shortly before the antichrist takes full command, while the world still loves him insteada fearing him. He will give an explanation for the disappearance of millions, that his followers, that is, mosta the world, will believe. His only opposition during this time will be the 144K Israelis & the 2 special witnesses, along with those who believe the Gospel & come to Jesus during this time. But they will not prevail against the antichrist. He will rule til Jesus returns & casts him & his sidekick, the false prophet, alive, directly into the lake of fire, without passing "Go!" or collecting $200. -
How is getting one's head cut off even equated to accepting Christ? Getting one's head cut off is the only means of remaining in the Lamb's book of life, but their resurection is the bodily resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4. It is better than being in the Lake of Fire, but it is not accepting Christ and becoming part of the glorified church. The church is sealed and completed at the 6th Seal. There is no more joining the church by faith after that point. There is not even joining the church at that point.
20 The rest of mankind, those who were not killed by these plagues, even then did not turn from what they had made with their own hands — they did not stop worshipping demons and idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they turn from their murdering, their involvement with the occult and with drugs, their sexual immorality or their stealing. -
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Yes, there were several months between the sieges. That merely provided the opportunity for the Jewish Believers to escape the “Days of Vengeance”. Audience relevance is very important here. Jesus told His audience “when you” see these the things that He described. He didn’t say “when they see these things”, or “when the people living at that time see these things”.
Actually, Jesus did not say He would return immediately after the tribulation. In Matthew 24:29-31, Jesus tells us “the sign of the Son of Man will appear”. He described a darkened sun, moon, etc. Heavenly bodies symbolize earthly rulers and governments in many places. The scriptural references I provided are proof that prophesies frequently utilize symbolism. Using the principle of interpretating scripture with scripture, it’s perfectly logical to believe He is using symbolic language. Consider the language of Acts 2:17-21, which quoted the prophet Joel. The sun did not literally turn dark nor did the moon literally turn into blood on the Day of Pentecost. Just as you refer to my arguments as “pret tactics”, I could just as easily refer to your arguments as “anti-pret tactics” or “futurist” tactics where you figure the meaning that you apply to these prophetic passages is the only possible explanation. We agree there can only be one true interpretation, but both our views have logical arguments.
The 2nd Coming did not occur in Revelation 1:7, but Jesus “came” in judgement of Israel. In Matthew 26:64, Jesus told Caiaphas “I tell you, hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of Heaven” . Coming on the clouds” refers to God coming in judgement (e.g. Isaiah 19:1, Jeremiah 4:13-14, Nahum 1:2-6)
The Beast was Rome (personified in Nero), and the False Prophet was Apostate Israel. While "futurists" often accuse Peterists of not interpreting the prophesies literally, futurists see a literal fulfillment of the 7 Trumpets of Rev 8 (1/3 of the earth burned up, burning mountains thrown into the sea, a great star falling), but a symbolic fulfillment of Rev 11:1-8. The irony here is that Jerusalem's location is specifically identified as "where their Lord was crucified" and symbolism is applied to Jerusalem as the city "which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt".
Since you returned to the theme of this thread, I shall do likewise. The rapture hasn't happened yet because it never will. While you believe Preterism to be a man-made doctrine, I believe the rapture to be a man-made doctrine.
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