1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The Righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Martin Marprelate, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,686
    Likes Received:
    129
    Faith:
    Baptist


    So the heathen in these Amazons, for instance, who hunt birds with poisoned arrows, and have scant ties with civilization, will be judged for not keeping the Jewish Sabbath?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not at all. The principle he refers to would likely be seen in men not murdering, stealing, lying, etc.

    I take the view that there are general principles concerning God's judgment we see throughout Scripture:

    1. God always reveals His Will to man;

    2. God always judges men based on the will revealed to them (meaning He does not judge men in Abraham's day for not embracing the New Covenant, for example);

    3. He always judges men according to their understanding of the revelation they have received. An example for this would be in the case of babes who die in the womb, young children, or those mentally impaired. Do we expect God to judge them harshly for not "keeping His will," when it would be hard for us to see these examples as having received the will of God? So too, with those prior to the Revelation of the Mystery of Christ, we see the grace of God extended to them, even though they have not believed on the Risen Savior and embraced the Gospel.

    Here is an example of a distinction made between the judgments of those prior to the Cross and after:


    Hebrews 10:28-29
    King James Version (KJV)

    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?



    In view are those who have rejected God's will for man, and those who reject Christ, His Sacrifice, the New Covenant, and reject the ministry of the Comforter...

    ...will be judged more severely than those who rejected the Covenant of Law.


    God bless.
     
  3. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    12,571
    Likes Received:
    847
    Faith:
    Baptist
    One aspect you've totally missed here is that these 'heathen' in this passage are 'doing by nature the things of the law' because they've 'the work of the law written in their hearts'. The 'heathen', as you refer to them, presented in this passage are clearly born from above.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,694
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Faith:
    Baptist
    By the word itself σαββατισμὸς - sabbatismos

    HankD
     
  5. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Correct, the word is by itself.

    ;)


    God bless.
     
  6. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I just noticed you almost have 20,000 posts, lol.

    You go, Hank.


    God bless.
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,694
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Darrell read chapters 5 thru 7 of Hebrews and you can't miss the comparison - an earthly priesthood vs a heavenly..

    Hebrews 7
    11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
    19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
    20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
    21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
    22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
    23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:

    HankD
     
  8. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,694
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks Darrell, been here since 2001 :)

    HankD
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. asterisktom

    asterisktom Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,686
    Likes Received:
    129
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Darrell, I basically agree with what you said. I am directing the question to Agedman, particularly his referring to "Decalogue" (= 10 Commandments). I am particularly focusing on the Sabbath commandment and its non-application to the heathen.
     
  10. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist

    Christ is still the central Figure, Hank.

    Not Melchisedec.


    God bless.
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    32,106
    Likes Received:
    744
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The ONLY person born again have received Jesus as their Lord/Messiah!
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    32,106
    Likes Received:
    744
    Faith:
    Baptist
    And they are not the same persons!
     
  13. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you sure about that?


    God bless.
     
  14. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2010
    Messages:
    8,735
    Likes Received:
    242
    Faith:
    Baptist
    If they were born of God they would have the Gospel written on their hearts. The context deals with the Jew/Gentile separation, not good Christian/bad Christian.


    God bless.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    21,694
    Likes Received:
    1,513
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Darrel - Melchizedek IS Christ.

    do an in depth study of Hebrews.
    IMO it is the theological narrative of the transition from the OC to the NC.

    Acts is the historic narrative of the same.

    HankD
     
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,189
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not certain what you are attending, but the Romans passage states that the heathen are responsible because of the evidences written even on their hearts.

    Are you concerned about "these Amazons, for instance, who hunt birds with poisoned arrows, and have scant ties with civilization, will be judged" and their eternity?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    32,106
    Likes Received:
    744
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Yes, as mel was a type of the One to come, but not Him, as the ONLY time Jesus appeared in the OT was as the Angel of the Lord.
     
  18. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,189
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    There are those who do take Melchizedek as the Christ.

    There are those who are a bit more strict with the wording and state that Christ was made according to (order of) Melchizedek.

    That assumption being that pre-Noah, there was a continual line of God's appointed (not levites) who were as God's apostles ( as Christ was referred to as an Apostle - messenger from God - as used in Hebrews 3, if I recall). As Levi is used to refer to both the father and the offspring who served as "Levites" so to, Melchizedek serves as both a father and typographical figure for the Christ.

    It matters so very little if one wants to present Melchizedek as the Christ, or as a type of the Christ.

    What is more important is the role, the message that the writer of Hebrews is presenting.

    The presentation of the continued priestly presentation and duties of Christ.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    7,189
    Likes Received:
    500
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Not true.

    Heathen hearts do what is written in their hearts as evidenced by all cultures and social groups having some form and fashion of worship and a standard of moral laws that present order and unity to that group. But such as written on their hearts is not salvation, but the presentation of a need to live to some standard and placate some god that will bring blessing or cursing depending on the sacrifice offered (human as in the OT and South American, or work of the hands).

    However, clearly from the onset of Romans, there is no foundation to expect these heathen to be other then heathen as we all were until the Father chose to give us to Christ.
     
  20. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    32,106
    Likes Received:
    744
    Faith:
    Baptist
    None will be saved by keeping the Law of God on their hearts, as salvation is by Grace alone faith alone!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
Loading...